Fjool Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Time out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 oh ! its nice to see this thread open again , I hope there can be some interesting and healthy debate again without turning into a firmly entrenched batlle ground again , ( I was starting to think we might end up with home made rockets flyin atween da isles we the way passions were being heated !) On another note regerding this terrible state of affairs , I think that yes the BBC have definately been wrong on the stance they took regarding not supporting the charity fund thing but on the other hand I for one will certainly not be putting any of my money into it , now I have given generously over the years to various charities and disaster funds , especially the tsunami a few years back , but the idea that we must pay (joe public ) for man made militery aggresion , destruction , death & injury inflicted by one of the most advanced technological armed forces against what is largely a defenceless civillian population that are sadly controlled by what amounts to no more than a fanatic / extreme militia which in my opinion barely functions at what could be even vaguely described as a Government . This whole messshould be paid for out of the middle east region , there are oil producing countriesin the region bursting at the seems with oil money who should be sympathetic to there fellow muslims , and Israel should be held firmly to account to pay for collateral damage to innocents and there property . However I doubt very much the U.N will manage that because as I see it they manage nothing ever . At the end of the day I am pretty sure all Israel will get out of this latest show of force is that they have now deeply sewn the seeds of hatred into yet another generation of Palastinians and many in the rest of the muslim world , and they will no doubt reap what they sow . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOYAANISQATSI Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I see Iran getting slipped gently back into the headlines. Can you tell what it is yet kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I see Iran getting slipped gently back into the headlines. Can you tell what it is yet kids? It's that evil country next on the list after Iraq? "President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, used the final rally of celebrations of the 30th anniversary of the 1979 revolution to declare a readiness for talks with the US "based on mutual respect and in a fair atmosphere". www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/11/iran-us-relations I am thinking of going to Iran for my holidays this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibber Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 …. your description of me as being guilty of hate crime, scurrilous and feeble. You spent a lot of time trying to equate Zionism with Nazism.. ….Zionists are not all terrorist extremists any more than Jews as a race….. Simply not true. Zionism is as extremist an ideology as one can conceive. ...and a lot of energy trying to equate current Israeli politics with the most extreme parts of Zionism. … my issues are with the current Zionist establishment. These people are I believe extremely extreme, if that is a feasible term. As for comparison to Nazism, such a point has been well argued… I would suggest that a state where two of the candidates likely to win (not just contest, but to win) the highest office have such backgrounds, must be classed as extremist. How are you not equating current Israeli policy and politics with that of Nazi Gemany’s and how is this not a hate crime? Singing the praises of a Holocaust denier is bound to make people wonder EM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 You spent a lot of time trying to equate Zionism with Nazism.. I didn't actually, but notwithstanding that, I do believe that in practical terms the current Zionist movement is fascist. As I pointed out, Einstein and his group of western intellectuals did specifically call them Nazis. You never clarified if you also consider him to be guilty of hate crime? ...and a lot of energy trying to equate current Israeli politics with the most extreme parts of Zionism.Well didn't you notice the results of the Israeli election? Was Bibi soundly defeated due to being an unrepresentative freak on the hard right of Zionism? No, he got loads of votes and was asked to form the next government. QED. ... how is this not a hate crime?To point out negative aspects of a political movement is not even remotely "hate crime." Have a look, you must be misunderstanding the term considerably. Singing the praises of a Holocaust denier is bound to make people wonder EMI made my own position on holocaust denial clearly, though it disapeared in a thread purge, along with Tim's interesting points. To reiterate; I don't think it matters much which figure for total dead is true, even the most extreme revisionists accept that loads of people were dead as a result of the NSDAP's rule. So even the lowest figures are well beyond thresholds of utter evil. To slander Koy because he has the guts to question taboo topics (and why the subjects are indeed taboo), is pathetic. I think "people" would be better advised to wonder why you need to hysterically abuse him, while you find it correct to jump to excuse the excessive Zionist state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibber Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 “Zionism is as extremist an ideology as one can conceive.†Yes, you meant its something worse than Nazism. The difference is that unlike you, Einstein didn't label the entire movement Nazi or the entire movement fascist, he was referring to an extreme offshoot of Zionism. I saw a very close election where unfortunately (IMO) the right wing Netanyahu won. Do you really think we can expect the Israeli equivalent of the Nuremburg rallies soon in Dizengoff Square, a reign of terror suppressing the (considerable number of) dissidents who voted for Livni and the systematic extermination of all Arabs and Palestinians? Just like the last time he was PM. To point out negative aspects of a political movement is not even remotely "hate crime." Have a look, you must be misunderstanding the term considerably. You are not pointing out negative aspects you are calling the whole movement fascist, calling it as extreme a movement as can be conceived, calling Zionism terrorism and calling Israel an extremist state because the only candidates to contest the election were Zio-fascists Livni and Netanyahu. You are equating current Israeli policies and by extension Israeli society with that of the Nazis (or an ideology more excessive than Nazism). This is a hate crime. If you really are convinced its not then the only other explanation is that it is you who is misunderstanding Israeli society and history, the term fascist, and/or what the Zionist movement is. Conspiracy theories lifted from the Internet running from the Protocols to Jewish conspiracy to Holocaust denial isn’t taboo busting investigation, or the lofty goal of “question everything†or a post modern critique of what can and can’t be said. Its hating Jews, just like it was throughout Europe, throughout history and I’ll reserve the right to hate them back even if it irks you, thanks. Those who regard it as otherwise are the least qualified to opine on anything to do with Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOYAANISQATSI Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 The vast majority of those in the slave labour camps knew nothing of there being gas chambers or not and they are still victims of the propaganda machine; some are only finding out today; through the trickle feed of info from the bad arolsen records, that their long lost relatives died of typhus. A few have been drawn into the programme of promoting the gas chamber tales; like Elie Wiesel and it is no surprise that the story is coated with laws of protection because as soon as you asked me take a look at it; (avoiding white power type sources as best I could) it only took a short time for the real evidence against gas chambers and mass extermination plans, to have it completely fall apart. So you brought me here and I am grateful for it and not just because it gets you in a tizz; but I feel those who suffered the horror of that time are still being abused, through not being told what went on, and the friction that it will always cause as it gives any lame skinhead an excuse to cause hassle to innocents. Many a pro zionist will tell you that an anti semite is a Jews best freind as it spurs on reason and cause in the individual; so I know where your anger comes from at my views with this matter but rest assured; this is not and never was about you.It is about the truth. To remain silent and indifferent is the greatest sin Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabiaTerra Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 The vast majority of those in the slave labour camps knew nothing of there being gas chambers or not and they are still victims of the propaganda machine; some are only finding out today; through the trickle feed of info from the bad arolsen records, that their long lost relatives died of typhus.There were over nine thousand camps in the Nazi camp system. Of these only 5 were extermination camps: Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, Chelmno and Auschwitz. Of these, the first four were extermination camps only, so only at Auschwitz was there a chance for the slaves to know anything about gas chambers. The typhus epidemic theory for the deaths has also been comprehensively debunked. The gas chambers and crematorium were built months before the typhus outbreak and in other camps which also suffered typhus outbreaks, the death rate was nowhere near that at Auschwitz. If you are as open-minded as you claim to be, Koy, I suggest you have a good look through this site: http://www.holocaust-history.org/ You might learn something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOYAANISQATSI Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 They can not comprehensively debunk anything against the hard evidence. I'm not entering into debate here so you can get my posts chopped again but just to defend myself against a thread skipping troll attack and to encourage others to check things out for themselves. On the rest, see other thread: Again no matter what is presented, those who support the general consensus will take whatever nonsense they are given as truth Never underestimate the power of denial within a much hyped lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibber Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 A little late ×—×’ שמח שָ××œ×•Ö¹× Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 A little late ×—×’ שמח שָ××œ×•Ö¹× Happy Birchat HaChammah to you. The sun has moved a bit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibber Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Happy Birchat HaChammah to you. The sun has moved a bit though. Many many thanks for that Crofter. Hopefully the subject of Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states will be a memory long before we have to worry about getting the timing spot on for the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 with the recent conviction in Iran of a journalist, I must say i found it quite ammusing that president wharsmedinnerjacket came out with the statement that he had instructed the judicial system to ensure the poor woman was granted all rights and to ensure fairness in the trial.Surely in a free and fair society he should not need to do this, and would it not of been better coming out with it before her trial and not after her conviction.Surely this is proof that even the president of the country conceeds trials are not fair. One more point in Israel if an 8 year old is caught stealing a loaf of bread the worst he could expect is a skelpt bum in Iran driving a pickup over his arm was the way they found to get around the Koran saying they should not chop the hands of children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabiaTerra Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 ^^^^^ I suspect this is dinnerjacket preparing the ground for a grand gesture to the US. I think the journo in question has American links so I believe it will go like this: Appeal fails. Journo gets ridiculous sentence. dinnerjacket steps in and grants a pardon to show how merciful the great state of Iran is. It keeps the hardliners in Iran happy, butters up to Obama and makes dinnerjacket look good. Remember, he's up for re-election this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts