Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states

[ArabiaTerra]

Ok, a few points for you, Koy. There were almost 10,000 camps of all kinds scattered all over Nazi occupied Europe before and during WW2. Very few of them were death camps, or even directly linked to the holocaust.

 

The reason you can't walk up to a gas chamber in Auschwitz and have a look inside is because, before they abandoned the camp to the approaching Russians, the Nazis blew them up. Why?

 

If they wanted to hide the crime of the concentration camps then why did they not raise the whole camp. Answer: Because they did not have time, the Red Army was bearing down on them. So, given that they were short of time (and probably explosives), why did they choose those particular buildings out of all the hundreds of buildings in the complex to blow up? What was so special about them? If they were simply for fumigation, then why was another fumigation chamber left intact?

 

And what about the Aktion Rienhardt camps, Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno and Belzec. After they had served their purpose (whatever that was), why did the Nazi's go to so much trouble to obliterate these camps from the face of the Earth. They didn't do this with any of the other 9,000+ camps in the Nazi empire. So what was so special about these?

 

The answer to both these points is that the Nazi's were trying to cover up the evidence of the systematic, industrialised murder of six and a half million people, the events now known as the Holocaust.

 

If you have another explanation, I'd love to hear it.

[MJ]

Small contradiction here I have photographs I took inside one of the gas chambers in Auschwitz. Including one of the kilns used to dispose of the bodies.

Would also just like to point out that it is amazing what good moral citizens can "not see" if it puts them out of their comfort zone.

 

One thing I can never understand is why people deny that the holocaust happened or was as severe as it was?

[KOYAANISQATSI]

From 9/11, to Einstein, to the mccanns (I believed all of them at one time) it's been my experience that if you look past smokescreens and go against the accepted concensous the best you can hope for is a kook label stuck on and If your evidence becomes to damning; ignored or in something like this labeled a monster or imprisoned for several years.

 

There's enough out there for people to do their own research. (pick and choose as you please) There also is plenty on the documentary channels on a daily if not hourly basis for tales of 'dirty snowball comets' and 'gas chamber horrors' from the ultimate truth teller, TV.

 

I for one am now totally unconvinced with much of the given truths I had been blindly accepting for too long but totally convinced there is no point arguing with what folk have seen on telly.

 

I hope the Bad Arolsen documents help many more like 'survivor Eugene Black' to find out the truth of what befell their relatives but with a big business like the Holocaust Memorial Museum holding onto them tightly till they have completed their careful editing don't be surprised if the total truth is never known.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Small contradiction here I have photographs I took inside one of the gas chambers in Auschwitz. Including one of the kilns used to dispose of the bodies.

 

If you research as deeply as the Wikipedia it will explain for you how they were rebuilt after the war as the Nazis had blown them up to hide the evidence but then forgot to kill the prisoners; who then grassed them right up.

 

The Polish government then decided to restore Auschwitz I and turn it into a museum honouring the victims

The last selection took place on October 30, 1944. The next month, Heinrich Himmler ordered the crematoria destroyed before the Red Army reached the camp. The gas chambers of Birkenau were blown up by the SS in January 1945 in an attempt to hide the German crimes from the advancing Soviet troops. On January 20 the SS command sent orders to murder all the prisoners remaining in the camp, but in the chaos of the Nazi retreat the order was never carried out.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp

[khitajrah]

^^ Aaah, Wikipedia, a wonderful source of all things true.

 

Apparently Aith was evacuated on the 20th of February this year, did you know? Clever Wikifolk. If Wikipedia says it, it must be true!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aith

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Aaah, Wikipedia, a wonderful source of all things true.

 

Mj was confused why AT said the evidence was blown up, as he/she had a photo of the building. The wiki link was to show what the most basic level of concensous was on the matter and the wiki is a good rough pointer for such things.

 

It had nowt to do with any point I made; just clearing up for MJ why AT said what he did.

 

(EDIT)..

the gas chamber at Auschwitz I (which had been converted into an air-raid shelter for the SS) was restored and the fence was moved

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp

 

Oh yes, and the Auschwitz gas chamber had been an air raid shelter.

Just like the Jewish revisionist David Cole had said it was in his film.

(in case you missed it)

[KOYAANISQATSI]

I see the David Cole vid has been taken down(again) so here's a recap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKHw0EZrqM

And this one should clear up air raid gas chamber confusion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQkD7AqLl5c&feature=related

7 parts to these, well worth a look.

The guys a legend and if anything (if you can put up with his annoying voice) it proves (if needed) that all jews are not involved in this travesty of history but more likely a select few and if germans had locked up and tatooed me I'd have done the same thing, to dump them in as much s%!t as possible. More likely the main blame lies with ultra zionists, ol Rockefeller, IBM and the like.

The evidence is that Bad Arolsen holds more than the terrifying history of millions of individual victims, but also how big corporations, insurance companies profited. What’s more, the evidence of IBM’s involvement in the day to day victimization of Europe is only further magnified with thousands of new documents.

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/BadArolsenArticles.php

[ArabiaTerra]

... and the Auschwitz gas chamber

But this is my point Koy, there is not just one gas chamber in Auschwitz, there were several which were in and out of use at different times during the war. One gas chamber was taken out of use and converted to an air raid shelter when the larger capacity purpose built chambers were completed. This is the one which was later restored after the war. The larger chambers were then blown up when the camp was abandoned.

 

So I'll ask you again, if these buildings weren't the gas chambers what was so important about them that they, and they alone, were blown up at the end of the war?

[ArabiaTerra]

(if you can put up with his annoying voice)

I agree, he sounds like Stephen Hawking on Helium.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

The myth that the existence and use of homicidal "gas chambers" is well documented. In fact, the thing that really got me interested in this subject in the first place was the lack of documentation for gas chambers presented in the standard Holocaust work and the contradictions and guesswork inherent in the evidence that was presented.

---------------------

In an essay published in the Polish book Auschwitz, Piper writes that exterminations were moved to new gas chambers in the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex because it had become too difficult to keep the gas chamber at the Auschwitz main camp a secret from the inmates.

 

Auschwitz-Birkenau in an Allied arial photo from September 1944. These are the two crematoriums and " gas chambers," with the crematoriums above ground and L-shaped below ground rooms that were either gas chambers or mortuaries. And here you have the rows and rows of inmates barracks.

Now the thing that becomes immediately clear is there is nothing but a barbed wire fence hiding the inmates' barracks from the gas chambers.

The questionable four holes in the roof of the building are not detectable in any of the aerial photograph blow-ups that I've seen.

--------------------------

We have the Soviets at Nuremberg claiming that it was the Nazis, not the Soviets, who murdered thousands of Polish officers in the infamous Katyn Forest massacre. These days, of course, the Soviets have admitted that they are the ones responsible and most legitimate historians knew this all along. But at Nuremberg, the Soviets claimed that the Nazis bribed and threatened people to falsely blame the Soviets.

-------------------------

Simon Wiesenthal, one of the most recognizable names in the Holocaust arena, wrote in 1946 in a series of articles for an Austrian Jewish paper, about boxes of Jewish soap:

On the boxes were the initials "R.I.F." ( pure Jewish fat). These boxes were destined for the Waffen-SS. The wrapping paper revealed with complete cynical objectively, that the soap was manufactured from Jewish bodies. The civilized world may not believe the joy with which the Nazis and their women and the general government thought of this soap.

 

Holocaust scholars like Raul Hilberg, Yehuda Bauer and Deborah Lipstadt agree that these accusations are groundless.

------------------------

After the war, it was claimed at the Dachau camp that people were gassed. In fact, the army produced several propaganda films supporting that notion.

 

Army Film Narrator: Hanging in orderly rows were the clothes of prisoners who had been suffocated in a lethal gas chamber. They had been persuaded to remove their clothing under the pretext of taking a shower for which towels and soap were provided.

 

Yet now it is no longer claimed that anyone ever died in a Dachau gas chamber. This is a clear case of wartime propaganda. It should also be added, in fairness, that it was the British who obtained by torture the confession of Rudolph Hvss, Commandant of Auschwitz, before turning him over to the Soviets and Poles. This has been confirmed in a book published in 1983, titled Legions of Death, which contains the recollections of British Sergeant Clark who brags about having tortured Hvss to get a confession out of him, and of threatening his family

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html

 

Who can you trust ?

I could not have an answer about why some so called chambers are missing till I was sure over who said they were there or who said the Germans destroyed them.

Many of the survival horror stories to come out that I've read seem less realistic than an Eastenders script with fantastic details of events.

Even MJ still holds by the Jew soap story though It is now accepted as baloney.

many Holocaust revisionists believe that the actual total of dead at Auschwitz is even less than 1.1 million. But still, there is no possibility that even the most extreme Holocaust revisionist in the world could possibly revise the figure any more than the Holocaust "experts" already have.

Yet as details and numbers change in front of our eyes anyone who questions them is a grubby little racist.

The great Wikipedia tells us:

holocaust revision is holocaust denial and is generally considered to be an antisemitic conspiracy theory and that Arguing over how many people died in the Holocaust stops us from thinking about the fact that people were mass murdered. It is the fact of mass murder by the Nazis, and not the exact number of their victims, which is important.

The methodologies of Holocaust deniers are criticized as based on a predetermined conclusion that ignores extensive historical evidence to the contrary.

 

I Reckon it's not the revisionists who have been ignoring historical evidence.

[ArabiaTerra]

In an essay published in the Polish book Auschwitz, Piper writes that exterminations were moved to new gas chambers in the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex because it had become too difficult to keep the gas chamber at the Auschwitz main camp a secret from the inmates.

Well this is crap for a start. The Germans made no attempt to hide the gas chambers from the inmates. The new gas chambers were built because the old ones lacked the capacity to deal with the planned number of victims.

This has been confirmed in a book published in 1983, titled Legions of Death, which contains the recollections of British Sergeant Clark who brags about having tortured Hvss to get a confession out of him, and of threatening his family

But hang on a minute. This is eyewitness testimony, which you have already decided is inadmissible, so it doesn't prove anything. You can't have it both ways, either eyewitness testimony is reliable or it isn't. You can't just pick the testimony that supports your case and disregard the testimony which refutes it.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

David Cole wrote:

In an essay published in the Polish book Auschwitz, Piper writes that exterminations were moved to new gas chambers in the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex because it had become too difficult to keep the gas chamber at the Auschwitz main camp a secret from the inmates.

 

Well this is crap for a start. The Germans made no attempt to hide the gas chambers from the inmates. The new gas chambers were built because the old ones lacked the capacity to deal with the planned number of victims.

 

It was Dr. Franciszek Piper, director of Auschwitz state museum who said it and the tour guide with David Cole in vid-4 said much the same; but yes, I would also take what they say with a pinch of salt.

[sheepshagger]

just to get back to an arab jew context,

 

I'm just back from Egypt and the last building project completed to any kind of standard was the pyramids, and they got jewish contractors in to do that.

[Guest Anonymous]

just wonderin but what do you think is worst .... , 1.) arab )2.) jew 3.) fascist .) 4) commie , 5.) evangelical christian , also budist , sikh , hindu and jehova witness , had on yuns da tatties boilin .

[Gibber]

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/BadArolsenArticles.php

 

The Edwin Black book you link to doesn't deny the Holocaust, it documents IBM's involvement in it.

 

Are you believing in the Holocaust now or do you think a book about how IBM helped enable the Holocaust can be used to bolster your opinion that it didn't happen?