Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states

[KOYAANISQATSI]

The devil is in the details - the smallest details. Pelley and the 60 Minutes crew were amazed to see the Nazis kept records of head lice.

 

"You can see the names and numbers of each prisoner, and the amount of lice that were found," Jost says.

 

"I’m curious. Why did the Nazis keep all these records? If they were gonna murder these people anyway, why keep the paperwork?" Pelley asks.

 

"Because they wanted to show they were getting the job done. So, in terms of people whose destiny was to be murdered, recording how well that was being done was very important," Shapiro explains.

While the Nazis did not write down the names of those executed in the gas chambers at places like Auschwitz, they did keep detailed records of millions of others who died in the camps.

"Here we see the cause of death: executed. And you can see, every two minutes they shot one prisoner," Jost explains.

 

So they're happy to say they shot a prisoner every 2 minutes yet out of the millions of records not one peep of gas chambers, never, nowhere.

never once in 60 years has a letter home from a german soldier turned up saying "gosh mom, the made me throw hundreds of little children into a burning pit alive today. Sometimes I wish I'd never joined the Reich."

 

The claim is that the Germans tried to 'hide the evidence', that it was supposedly a state secret.

 

We get claims like the Germans tried to hide the alleged gassings by blowing up the impossible 'gas chambers', and then left millions of records for all to see.

 

"What was the stated reason for keeping these documents out of the public eye for more than 60 years?" Pelley asks.

 

"A respect for privacy of individuals was the most-often cited reason," Shapiro says. "On the one hand, you had governments stating 'We’re protecting people’s privacy.' And on the other hand, you had those very people saying 'No, no, we want the material to be open.'â€

http://judaism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=judaism&cdn=religion&tm=84&f=20&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/14/60minutes/main2267927.shtml

 

The victims I feel sorry for are the likes of poor old Eugene Black, who not only had to suffer life in various camps but then being led to believe for 60 years his parents and sisters had been gassed while absolute utter liars like Elie Wiesel get nobel peace prizes awarded.

 

BAD AROLSEN, Germany — The 21-year-old Russian sat before a clerk of the U.S. Army Judge Advocate's office, describing the furnaces at Auschwitz, the Nazi death camp where he had been a prisoner until a few weeks previously.

"I saw with my own eyes how thousands of Jews were gassed daily and thrown by the hundreds into pits where Jews were burning," he said.

"I saw how little children were killed with sticks and thrown into the fire," he continued. Blood flowed in gutters, and "Jews were thrown in and died there"; more were taken off trucks and cast alive into the flames.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-11-19-holocaust-papers_x.htm

 

I think we can disregard this type of testimony from the ever lying Stalinist crew.

For one thing he says he saw thousands gassed daily but only hundreds thrown in these burning pits. What is it about popular opinion that ossifies the mind making it impervious to view points that do not conform to the prevailing orthodoxy. Did no one ever question what the Nazis thought they would succeed in doing with setting fire to hundreds of bodies, cause they're sure as hell not going to burn away being 70% water, the best they could hope for is filling the camps with the stench of burnt flesh.

[Gibber]

I think we can disregard this type of testimony from the ever lying Stalinist crew.

For one thing he says he saw thousands gassed daily but only hundreds thrown in these burning pits.

 

But that isn't what is said though is it?

 

"I saw with my own eyes how thousands of Jews were gassed daily and thrown by the hundreds into pits where Jews were burning,"

 

Are you literally seeing distorted words in the same way you see a distorted history? Or have you just started to not bother to read your own cut and paste argument?

[ArabiaTerra]

We get claims like the Germans tried to hide the alleged gassings by blowing up the impossible 'gas chambers', and then left millions of records for all to see.

You're going to have to enlighten me here. Just what was impossible about the gas chambers?

[Gibber]

never, nowhere.

never once in 60 years has a letter home from a german soldier turned up saying "gosh mom, the made me throw hundreds of little children into a burning pit alive today. Sometimes I wish I'd never joined the Reich."

 

I thought that if true this would be an interesting point that that you raised that I had never considered before . But of course it isn't true, there are many letters from German soldiers writing about the Holocaust.

 

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section?content=a784380333&fulltext=713240928

 

There's a chance that link might not work as I'm guessing its restricted content. (and not restricted in a Jewish conspiracy type way but due to copyright issues)

 

This is a short synopsis

 

http://dailysalty.blogspot.com/2007/11/what-did-ordinary-german-soldiers-think.html

 

And from the 1st bit

 

There is no “Holocaust†to be found in the letters of German soldiers from the Eastern front in World War II. This was not because the term had not been coined yet, and was certainly unfamiliar to those involved,2 nor because of the fact that many soldiers actually didn't see much of the killing. Nor was the reason for this conspicuous absence that the soldiers preferred not to write to their wives and relatives about such a nasty theme, just as they kept silent about other sore points like, for example, their own death.3 Indeed there are some astonishingly frank descriptions and commentaries about different forms of atrocities against Jews, in spite of the censorship,4 and there are also many more or less concealed hints, insinuations or euphemisms about extermination actions going on. Some examples will shortly illustrate this.5 The following quote is from a letter of an ordinary soldier on his way to the Eastern front, dated early December 1942. It shows his knowledge about frequent transports of Jews to Auschwitz. Even though he was just passing trough the area, he knew that the Jewish passengers were all supposed to be killed shortly after their arrival:

 

Up here you see many prison camps assigned to do construction work and other things. There are Jews coming here, that is to say, to Auschwitz, seven or eight thousand a week who die a “hero's death†before long. You see, it's quite good to get around a great deal.6

 

In the next letter from the end of August 1943, a technical company sergeant clearly realizes the underlying intent of burning down the ghetto in Bialystok, Poland, and he approves of the plan not to let any Jews escape:

 

There's not much new to tell from here; during the last couple of days the ghetto got smoked out. Unfortunately some of the Jews managed to skedaddle; and from time to time we have some minor shoot-outs.7

 

In the following passage, dated September 1942 in Baranowitschi, White Russia, a reserve officer briefly mentions some apparently horrible actions in the ghetto. He insinuates that this did not happen for the first time and that it was carried out in a way that was still shocking for him and his comrades. It was not easy for him to talk about this theme:

 

You know our mood isn't improved very much by all these actions, nor by the lack of work. Currently a new action against Jews is making some impression on us; I prefer to spare you the details of what I saw today while walking past the affected quarters.8

 

Of course, on many occasions soldiers fighting in the East got to know about individual events in their vicinity or heard rumours about something “big†going on in order to solve the “Jewish Question†in Eastern Europe. Many of them became involved in killing actions by providing the necessary infrastructure, for example, by putting up barricades. Fewer actually participated in killing commandos, where they were ordered to shoot on helpless Jewish civilians. Some actively sought to join massacres on their own initiative.9 Many soldiers, deployed behind the front lines, became eye-witnesses of mass executions carried out by the SS “Einsatzgruppen,†special killing taskforces.10 They also saw the terrible situation of Jews in the ghettos or labour camps, where forced labourers were employed for military aims. On their way back home for holidays, some soldiers coming from the fighting zones showed photos to their comrades on the trains depicting hanged civilians, mass executions or other atrocities.11 Thus they found opportunities to communicate in a relatively unrestricted way and they could give some material evidence underlining their accounts of the extermination activities under way—which, at first, were hard to believe for many Germans too.

 

Each one of the numbers you see in this quote cites another academic work or primary source. None of which are Wikipedia or You Tube.

[Gibber]

More likely the main blame lies with ultra zionists, ol Rockefeller, IBM and the like.

 

IBM and Rockefeller faked the Holocaust to create Israel? Does this include the build up of Jewish hatred culminating in the Nuremberg Laws and the subsequent society wide persecution of Jews leading up to the 'IBM fake Holocaust', or was the 'IBM fake Holocaust' totally separate from this?

 

Did IBM/Zionists have a hand in the publication of pre-war Der Sturmer and other anti-semitic propaganda or did they just pounce on the general hatred of the Jews to create Israel after the groundwork had been done by the Nazi Germany?

[Gibber]

In sharp contrast to the extermination camp at Treblinka, which is in a wooded area as remote as Ted Kaczynkski's Montana cabin, the Majdanek concentration camp is situated in a major urban area, four kilometers from the city center of Lublin, and can be easily reached by trolley car. The location of the Majdanek camp is in an area of rolling terrain and can be seen from all sides; it could not be more public or accessible.

 

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/poland/majdanek/Majdanek.html

 

Thanks for admitting Treblinka is an extermination camp.

 

Executed by the Nazis for murdering two of the prisoners that he had been employed by the Nazis to murder by the thousands daily.

Makes sense that does.

 

You also say he was embezzling from the camp by taking bribes that could have gone to the Reich.

 

Among the inmates, according to the Museum guidebook, were a few American Prisoners of War.

 

...The Germans honored the rules of the Geneva convention for American POWs and allowed inspections by the Red Cross, which were mandated for Prisoners of War.

All the prisoners at Majdanek were allowed to receive Red Cross packages

 

And a couple of paragraphs down the same page you are quoting from ( http://www.scrapbookpages.com/poland/majdanek/Majdanek.html )

 

the Germans felt justified in not following any war-time regulations with regard to their Russian POWs. Polish soldiers, who were Jewish, were not treated in accordance with the Geneva convention,

 

and a few lines below that

 

The photograph below shows the ovens where bodies were cremated in the Majdanek camp.

 

Your argument is going through a bit of a holocaust. Try denying that.

[ArabiaTerra]

Did no one ever question what the Nazis thought they would succeed in doing with setting fire to hundreds of bodies, cause they're sure as hell not going to burn away being 70% water, the best they could hope for is filling the camps with the stench of burnt flesh.

Funny that, the Hindu's have been successfully cremating bodies for thousands of years.

[Gibber]

...it's been my experience that if you look past smokescreens and go against the accepted concensous the best you can hope for is a kook label stuck on and If your evidence becomes to damning; ignored or in something like this labeled a monster or imprisoned for several years.

 

There's enough out there for people to do their own research. (pick and choose as you please)

 

That's your problem, you are picking and choosing as you please. You will use a source that is absolutely in concordance with the veracity of the Holocaust to try to make a pretty innocuous point in your favour about Red Cross parcels.

 

Because you are picking and choosing what fits your opinion (and not choosing what is most likely to be true) your evidence is dogmatic, not damning.

 

I for one am now totally unconvinced with much of the given truths I had been blindly accepting for too long but totally convinced there is no point arguing with what folk have seen on telly.

 

Except you're arguing with people who have been either been to Auschwitz, are well read on the subject or know Holocaust survivors personally.

 

And to be honest you would be better off sticking to the telly (in this country anyway that is regulated by human rights law) rather than getting hypnotized by some of the corners of the internet you have been collecting your evidence from.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Thanks for admitting Treblinka is an extermination camp.

 

The link I used was from a site that complys to the extermination camp idea so yes there will be inaccuracies in it. It was used primarily to show how the so called gas chambers were in plain view of a busy road side.

 

There is no “Holocaust†to be found in the letters of German soldiers from the Eastern front in World War II. This was not because the term had not been coined yet, and was certainly unfamiliar to those involved

 

No one said there was not mass killings. Even David Irving could tell you that.

You tube will explain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wWwkNKG2SU&feature=related

[Gibber]

The link I used was from a site that complys to the extermination camp idea so yes there will be inaccuracies in it. It was used primarily to show how the so called gas chambers were in plain view of a busy road side.

 

That's what I mean by picking and choosing. If the source's claimed existence of the gas chambers at the camp is innacurate how does the source's claimed location of the camp next to a busy road have any more validity?

 

Answer: because you are picking and choosing whatever you want to be true and whatever you want to be inaccurate.

 

ArabiaTerra noticed it too. "You can't just pick the testimony that supports your case and disregard the testimony which refutes it."

 

No one said there was not mass killings.

 

But you did say

never once in 60 years has a letter home from a german soldier turned up saying "gosh mom, the made me throw hundreds of little children into a burning pit alive today. Sometimes I wish I'd never joined the Reich."

 

What does total elimination mean to you?

 

Something different than what it means to the writer of this letter that you claim doesn't exist

 

By comparing hygienic standards and discussing questions of “purity†and cleanliness, the soldiers developed a strong impulse for identification with their German fatherland and with the alleged fight for civilization, as can be seen in the following letter:

 

One just notices here how beautiful our home country is. The social deficiencies are impossible to describe. Dirt and mud. A great percentage of inhabitants are Jews.

 

And then the “solution†follows:

 

All the more urgent was the solution of the Jewish question. It is now pushed forward energetically by the Hungarian government according to the German model. A complete elimination is just necessary to give the miserable Russian people better living conditions.34

 

34. A lieutenant's letter (no date given in original)

 

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section?content=a784380333&fulltext=713240928

[KOYAANISQATSI]

If the existence of the gas chambers at the camp is innacurate how does the source's claimed location of the camp next to a busy road have any more validity?

 

The fact that the "gas chambers" were by a busy roadside in full view of anyone strolling by cannot be denied.

The fact that they were ever gas chambers in the first place can.

 

This is not picking and choosing or Deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning applies general principles to reach specific conclusions, whereas inductive reasoning examines specific information, perhaps many pieces of specific information, to impute a general principle.

 

Outdoor cremation fires in the middle of winter, for instance, might work better if they had a roof over them. For when it rained and stuff.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

The debate matters little me anyway. It's none to pretty from either side and it's bound to run and run.

Good luck with your "holocaust" in the face of growing revisionism; I've devoted enough of my time needed to it. Again, it matters little to me how much compensation Germany has to pay out anyway; I've only ever met one likeable German and though I cant remember her name, I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't Adolf.

[Gibber]

 

The fact that the "gas chambers" were by a busy roadside in full view of anyone strolling by cannot be denied.

The fact that they were ever gas chambers in the first place can.

 

This is not picking and choosing....

 

It is, you're picking and choosing what exists when it is strolled by! Stroll by a concentration camp=existence. Stroll by a gas chamber=non-existence.

 

Outdoor cremation fires in the middle of winter, for instance, might work better if they had a roof over them. For when it rained and stuff.

 

Next time it rains go outside, fill a bath full of petrol, sit in it and light a match. Safe in the knowledge that you will not burn.

 

The debate matters little me anyway. It's none to pretty from either side and it's bound to run and run.

Good luck with your "holocaust" in the face of growing revisionism; I've devoted enough of my time needed to it.

 

Although just not enough time to address the numerous holes in your argument shown on this page.

 

Bye bye. Don't forget to delete all your posts again on the way out.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Bye bye. Don't forget to delete all your posts again on the way out.

 

Oh I don't think so; now the crux of the argument has been shown.

 

But just for the sake of it:

 

Faking a hate crime is in itself a hate crime than the goal is no other than cause nagative feelings, hate, against the framed group. And it's not the first case that individuels belonging to a minority were discovered faking hate crimes!

 

"When hate is appropriate, then it is not only virtuous, but essential for Jewish well-being" -- Rabbi Meir Y. Soloveichik, "The Virtue of Hate," First Things, Feb. 2003

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJCcjIpbs58&feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKHw0EZrqM

[Gibber]

But just for the sake of it:

 

For the sake of what? getting the last word in?

 

Here, have one on me.

 

If all this turns out to hold water, it makes me wonder what else I have been lied to about and just what is Bush and his good old boys doing in the cult of Moloch in the Bohemian Grove. Is ritual murder still alive and well in the so called Jewish traditions of some, have those who died in and because of 9/11 all been just another blood sacrifice to a higher cause and to what end.