Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states

[petergear]

I suspect this thread should be part of this thread:

http://www.shetlink.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1120&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=250

 

Anyway while I'm here.... I found a couple of aricles on this subject in the Telegraph. Personally, I'm wholly disgusted by the Whitehouse response, which completely backs Israel's massacare on Gaza. Thankfully the UK and UN have at least issued statements calling for "restraint", although unfortunately these statements have not yet been backed by any action:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4016432/Israel-declares-war-to-the-bitter-end-as-death-toll-rises.html

 

There have been protests across Europe:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4016850/Gaza-attacks-Israeli-strikes-spark-protests-across-world.html

 

Anyone wishing to sign a petition calling on our leaders to assist in brokering an immediate ceasefire can do so here. Please take the time to do this:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/gaza_time_for_peace/?cl=161468217&v=2605

[petergear]

Quoted from another Telegraph article:

 

"Almost 300 Palestinians have been killed in the last two days alone. By contrast, rockets fired from Gaza have killed 17 Israeli civilians in the last seven years.

Since Israel completed its withdrawal from Gaza in September 2005, about 150 Palestinians have been killed by its security forces in the territory for every dead Israeli civilian. Faced with this astonishing ratio, Israel's government will find it extremely hard to argue that its response has been proportionate."

 

The link to the full article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/3999523/Analysis-Israeli-politics-lies-behind-Gaza-attacks.html

[groilick]

After grinding the Palestinians under the heels of their jackboots the Israelis have turned Gaza into a modern day Warsaw ghetto and are now preparing for the final solution.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

This is a real dodgy conversation to get embroiled in, but one thing is true as stated on the news yesterday, and that Palestine is the Worlds largest outdoor prison camp.

[Gibber]

Peter, you are very preoccupied with numbers killed, and you’re right, many more Palestinians have died in the conflict but is this how you decide who is in the right and who is in the wrong?

 

You quote from the Telegraph “Since Israel completed its withdrawal from Gaza in September 2005, about 150 Palestinians have been killed by its security forces in the territory for every dead Israeli civilian. Faced with this astonishing ratio, Israel's government will find it extremely hard to argue that its response has been proportionate.â€

 

If Hamas had the weaponry to kill Israelis by the thousands (read their constitution which explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel) would killing Palestinians by the thousands be acceptable then? That’s the definition of proportionate isn’t it? That’s an ideal 1:1 ratio for you.

 

Personally, I'm wholly disgusted by the Whitehouse response, which completely backs Israel's massacare on Gaza.

 

Like you the Whitehouse also wanted the ceasefire to continue, Fri 19 Dec.

 

"And so I sincerely hope that there will not be a resumption of the violence because that's not going to help the people of Gaza, it's not going to help the Palestinians, it's not going to help the Palestinian cause," Rice told reporters.

 

The US top diplomat went on to add that Palestinians must keep the truce with Israel in order to work toward the goal of building a Palestinian state living in peace alongside a secure Israel.

 

"The only way the Palestinians are going to reach their aspirations for statehood is through negotiations," Rice said.â€

 

Why don’t you have a good look at the plucky underdog you are so conspicuously absolving from blame and try to find out if there is anything other than the ratio of numbers killed and America that you should be “wholly disgusted atâ€

 

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

 

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

 

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavours."

 

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.

 

And if the current attack on Gaza’s plucky underdogs is still offending you more than anything Hamas does and embodies then perhaps you can tell me which other country in the world would suffer 3000 rocket attacks in 2008 without retaliation and what would you expect your government to do in this situation?

[Guest Anonymous]

I've also not noticed Tony Blair , that famous middle east peace envoy is nowhere to be seen during this outrageous massacre ! Perhaps he will be back with a few well rehearsed soundbites after he has digested his new years dinner and caught a jet back from the caribbean ??

 

I have no answers to this problem I look on both sides with equal distaste ,

the more death and destruction on both sides simply fuels the revenge for more of the same ,

I sometimes think it would be best to carpet bomb both sides several times over and then unleash lots of hungry tigers, hyenas etc into the ruins ! , and im feeling festive today !!

 

peace on earth and goodwill to all men ..... apparently not !!

[Guest Anonymous]

nah i joost hope somwhar de see da sense tae gee a yun killing hellery up . its just whan big sad shame , espescially fur da bairns ......

happy new year

[sheepshagger]

saw a lot of folks protesting against Israels bombing of Gazza not one protest against Hammas rocket attacks on Israel.

It seems it is only wrong to wage war if you are competent, fools and useless buggers carry on Red Ken and comrade George say its OK.

 

If there is one usefull thing the Palestinians can do for themselves it is to get rid of the militants in their own society, for they are surely the most incompetent wagers of war on the face of the earth. Up to 300 rockets a day for 2 weeks and only 4 dead, as opposed to 400+/- dead on their own side from the retaliation.

 

Just because the Israeli's have the waging of war worked out and refined to the point that there is no country or even 5 countries together in the region that stand a chance against them, it does not make them automatically wrong.

 

When your military strategy is to attack your much stronger neighbour then bitch when they kick your ass, no wonder all those dumb pootle hippies were out protesting

[Siffy]

Through the Internet i have two contacts who live in Israel, one of them sent me the following emails a few days ago, so i thought i'd share it with you all.

 

 

Benjamin Netanyahu Gaza Statement:

 

 

Please Help us spread this message around the globe.

 

For many years this country was not working on its Hasbara (this is a word that literally means explanation; The word is being used to describe our efforts to explain Israeli government policies, and to promote Israel to the world at large).

 

This is Hamas war against Israel, and not the opposite.

 

what about the rockets they have been firing at us since 2008?? How longer can we keep quiet??

 

here are some facts:

 

The damage done by rockets to the civilian population of Sderot and other western Negev population centers cannot be measured only statistically in terms of dead and wounded. Studies done in recent years showed that the continued rocket fire and the large number of shock victims have led to post traumatic stress disorder among many of Sderot's residents (close to 30%). It influences their mental health and seriously damages the quality of their lives.

 

Statistics of Kassam rocket and mortar fire from the Gaza Strip

 

Total rocket attacks:

 

Since the first rocket fell on Israel on 16 April 2001: 3,706

Since the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in August 2005: 3,123

Since the Hamas takeover of Gaza in mid-June 2007: 1,685

This year:

- From 1 Jan through 30 Nov 2008: 1,212

 

Mortar bomb hits since April 2001: 3,948

 

 

We must not keep quiet anymore!

 

We have the right to defend ourselves, and Israel has the obligation to defend its citizens!

 

Please help us by forwarding this Video!

 

 

Thank you all!

 

---------------------------------------------------------

http://sderot.aish.com/SderotPetitions/15Seconds.php

 

תעבירו במיוחד ×œ×—×‘×¨×™× ×•×§×¨×•×‘×™× ×‘×—×•×œ

 

Only 15 seconds to run for cover and they are living this way for 8 years already...

 

---------------------------------------------------------

[oddtablet]

Shame on George Bush for his latest statement.... what a marionette....th sooner he goes the safer the world will be !.... this current sham is awful !! This area is the same as Lerwick to Sumburgh...please please somebody make them see sense without the violence

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Shame on George Bush for his latest statement.... what a marionette.... the sooner he goes the safer the world will be

 

Why?

Is he going to take the military-industrial complex with him?

 

His strings may get cut but rest assured, them that pull the strings remain.

 

A marionette is a puppet controlled from above using strings; a marionette's puppeteer is called a manipulator. Marionettes are operated with the puppeteer hidden

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marionette

[Guest Anonymous]

Still no sign of that middle east peace envoy Tony Blair ,should he not be jumping around in his underpants fluterring a white hanky with a traffic cone on his head by now ??

 

Now I dont know why they cant use the latest military technology to shoot these rockets down as the approach and also using the latest infra red technology to liquidise the firing teams whislt they are setting up to fire .

I have seen plenty of this kind of footage from Iraq etc ,

I think Israel will regret this course of action in a big way at the end iof the day , they are only further inflame hatred towards them .

and why are jews so unpopular ?? they haven't done me any harm but there always seems to be one crowd or another wanting to erase them from the planet .

I am just a drunken agnostic and if there is anything after death i will see it as a bonus ,then again it might be worse and i will wish i was dead again !!

[EM]

and why are jews so unpopular ??

The reasons why Jews were historically persecuted are pretty lame, but many would argue that their unpopularity nowadays stems mainly from the actions of Zionists. Jew does not equal Zionist, but people tend to lump all Jews together and blame the race/people for the chauvinism of the Zionists.

[Gibber]

The reasons why Jews were historically persecuted are pretty lame,

 

Do you think there are valids reason for hating a race?

 

but many would argue that their unpopularity nowadays stems mainly from the actions of Zionists. Jew does not equal Zionist, but people tend to lump all Jews together and blame the race/people for the chauvinism of the Zionists.

 

And many would argue that in the same way that Jews have been persecuted for centuries the Jewish state is now persecuted. If you hate Jews, its a given that you would hate a Jewish state. Widespread and vicious hatred of Jews is historical fact. Why would that change with the creation of modern Israel?

[EM]

Do you think there are valids reason for hating a race?

Certainly not.

 

And many would argue that in the same way that Jews have been persecuted for centuries the Jewish state is now persecuted.

Some do, but I don't.

 

If you hate Jews, its a given that you would hate a Jewish state.

I would agree that it is hard to imagine any Jew hater not hating wider Jewish institutions. The reverse is, however, not the case. Many people hate the Zionist state, but have no issues with the Jewish people and culture.

 

Widespread and vicious hatred of Jews is historical fact. Why would that change with the creation of modern Israel?

Who says it has? Had Israel been a different (less radically chauvinistic) kind of project, attitudes towards Jewish culture would probably be much more positive today.