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Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states

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I suppose it comes down to whether or not terrorists/freedom fighters/whateveryouropinion should be allowed to express their opinions on a public platform


In the case of Hezbulah, I think it is very important that they should be given media access


(I don't think it helped the British government's position during the Irish 'Troubles' when they banned tne IRA from direct media access)

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With Israel announcing an escalation of their incursions into Lebanese territory, I'm glad to see good old Alisdair Carmichael lending his support to a Parliamentary recall in order to debate the worsening situation in the Middle East


From www.shetland-news.co.uk - MP backs Lebanon debate call


Mr Carmichael said: "Like everyone else I have watched news bulletins in recent days with a growing sense of horror. The situation in the Middle East is worsening and urgent action must be taken to bring about an immediate ceasefire.


"Parliament must be recalled so that government ministers can tell us what they are doing to help bring about an end to this conflict. It would also give MPs an opportunity to quiz ministers on why they have so far failed to condemn Israel's disproportionate actions.


"We might also be able to establish once and for all if UK airports are still being used by the US to transport weapons to Israel. I would also want the government to explain why Britain has not stopped selling weapons to Israel.


"If ever there was a time when British foreign policy needed to be independent this is it. Simply going along with the Unites States is to fail in meeting the obligation which our own past involvement in this region gives us."

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George Galloway explodes




he has a very fair point though


He makes points which cannot really be argued against, and, while I don't believe that shouting makes an argument any more persuasive, it's sometimes the only way to be heard when you're dealing with the image obsessed morons who present and program Sky News.


I'm a little unsure of Galloway sometimes, but I'm with him 100% on this one.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hadn't noticed this thread before, but felt I wanted to have some small input.


Israel is NOT the puppet of the USA. Far from it. They will be friends when it suits the Israelis to do so. Other times, well consider why they locked up Mordecai Vanunu for so long. He blew the whistle on their illegal and long-running espionage operations on US soil, including the theft of the nuclear material which jump started the Israeli nuclear arsenal when the rest of the world refused to sell it to them.


The Israelis are a "little man" in the eyes of the rest of the world, but in the eyes of the other Middle Eastern countries, they are a fearsome and terrifying opponent that you mess with to your cost.


Their (reborn) country was clawed back by them from the rest of the world after - in their eyes - the rest of the world closed their eyes and ears to their plight and massacre at Uncle Joe and Adolf's hands all these years.


For those of with longer memories, Britain was a major part of the blockade on Palestine that attempted to prevent them "returning" and retaking their spiritual homeland. They were gnats in the face of a well trained, war hardened military machine, and still they won.


Their special forces still refuse to associate with ours due to the policies used against them by the SAS, etc, in the days of conflict leading to the formation of the state of Israel.


Nowhere else in the world can you find a small country, a desert state, beset on literally all sides by other nations whose agendas all equate to the destruction of that tiny nation? And yet they prevail. How many far richer, better equipped neighbours went to war against them in '67, and yet they not only won, they won with relative ease (from a military history overview).


They have had to evolve a mindset - a collective mindset - that says, mess with us and we'll pay you back, big time. Operation Wrath of God says it all about them (that's what "Munich" was about). They visited the wrath of their God on those who took arms and shed their people's blood. That's what they will continue to do. George (Bush that is, not that clown Galloway) and Tony can ask and they can beg and they can plead, but unless it suits Israel and their people to do so, they will carry on their own path.


Fundamental jews believe that they are a chosen people and that they have a covenant with God going back thousands of years, long before an alleged carpenter's son or Mohammed were known to man.


I try to be objective about such things, but when people say "they threw the first stone", how far back are you willing to take it, because their grievances gi back millenium, and they haven't forgotten any of them.


Hezbollah may eventually succeed, just as Begin and his "terrorist/freedom fighters" in the Stern Gang succeeded, but I am not holding my breath meantime.


And as for warcrimes, they don't give a stuff. Our governments watched and supported Hitler when he packed them away to the camps that eventually killed millions of them, traded with Joe while he continued the work. We only went to war when it became politically expedient to do so, not when morals or genocide became factors. Our countries are still war criminals to many of them.


Gie's peace (please?) :(

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Whodat makes some interesting and important points, but, IMHO, misses the most important one. Without US funding and military technology Israel is nothing. Without US F-15's, F-16's, smart bombs, Patriot missiles and the rest Israel would be a smoking hole in the ground.


The 6 day and Yom Kippur wars were won with western military hardware and the Israeli Nukes came from the US. Wasn't Mordecai Vanunu jailed for revealing that the US had supplied Israels nuclear technology. (I genuinely don't know this so I am open to correction, just repeating heresay or "accepted wisdom")


On a totally seperate point, is there any way to make sure my signature is attatched to all posts I make automatically instead of having to tick the box every time I post.


(And is there a topic where I should address such points?) :wink:

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  • 2 months later...

I have just finished reading a book called 'The Great War for Civilisation' by Robert Fisk. The author has been Middle East correspondent for the Times and then the Independant since the late seventies and the book covers all the conficts from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan to the present and includes his three interviews with bin Laden in it's 1300 pages. It is a harrowing read as it reveals the true extent of the lies and hypocrisy of the West in relation to this subject. It almost makes me ashamed to be British. To contradict what I said in a previous post somewhere on these forums: We have never been the 'Good Guys' in the Middle East and the sooner we get our troops out and stop messing with the lives of these people the better.


This is a challenging book, partly due to it's sheer size, but mainly due to the traumatic nature of the contents. Required reading if you are interested in the truth. While I will never condone suicide bombing in any way, I now believe I understand a little of the desperation which drives people to commit these crimes. :cry:


As an example of the western media's hypocricy in this matter, I have yet to hear any of the news channels call the killing of these women 'murder' or 'terrorism' which it most assuredly is. Had it been Palestinians who had killed Israeli women those would have been the first words used. :evil:


Remember the very Israeli presence in the Gaza Strip is illegal according to UN resolution 242.

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BBC News website, 10th November:


"The casualty figures reveal how very one-sided Gaza's conflict is.


In the past nine days alone around 80 Palestinians have been killed. And altogether, close to 400 have died - many of them civilians - since the Israeli army intensified operations in late June.


Over the same period, on the Israeli side, there have been three deaths. They were all soldiers, and one of them was killed accidentally in friendly fire."


A link to the full article:



Also, a link to another article, about Israel violating Lebanese air space


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Why, because they envy us for our freedom, and they're not grateful for all the things we in the west have done to help them!


Arabs were free,educated and sophisticated when Brits were still painting themselves with woad. The West has done very little to help them in recent years,merely altered boundaries and created new countries in order to control the wealth from oil. There would be far less trouble in the world if we let them live their own lives without interference.

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