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Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states

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Thanks, Fjool - yes, I agree, we did need a bucket of cold water chucking over us. One or two (entirely peaceable) comments:


Abraxas, yes, you're quite right of course about my saying "the Jewish people" rather than "a few mad extremists". If you judged any people by the specimens who end up in charge, you'd end up in total despair for the human race. I think that has got worse in recent years, too - half a century ago many of our own MPs actually had practical experience of the things they were legislating about (business, technology, working conditions etc.); nowadays all you get is "professional politicians" whose experience is largely limited to arguing about things (sans knowledge, if a lot of what you hear is any guide).


The same phenomenon is slowly strangling our industries, too - now run by people who "know how to manage" because they've got a bit of paper to say so, but who know sweet Fanny Adams about the actual business they're "managing" ... but there's a whole other thread there.


Thank God (and why not, as He is the same one on both sides in the Middle East and here in our "Christian" country) that there is something of a lull now. Interesting to note that quite a few people on the radio & in the papers have been saying that it would all end when Bush went - a cynical view perhaps, yet once again it turns out to be true. How long the uneasy peace lasts remains to be seen, but we can hope.

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"We must expel Arabs and take their places."

- David Ben Gurion, 1937 ("Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs", OUP, 1985.)


"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not

even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you

because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not

exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place

of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the

place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman.

There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a

former Arab population."


There is not one muslim city, town, or village in that region that did not have a jewish population before they were killed evicted or converted to islam, so what exactly is your point damn saxon?

Is it if you push a people out of their land don't be suprised if one day they come back and are a liottle harder to push around this time.


Wherever I've been in this world if there is a muslim population living in proximity to any other faith or non faith then there is trouble.

We hear a lot about how this current trouble in iraq is another western christian crusade, israel, murdering jews killing innocent muslims, chechnya, godless ex communists picking on innocent muslims, western china, yet more godless communists picking on innocent muslims, indian sub continent, seihks and hindus picking on innocent muslims, se asia blood thirsty buhdists picking on innocent muslims.


Is it just me or does any one else see a patern forming here.

maybe i'm just very good at stirring the turd and set all these conflicts in motion, or .........wait for it, the muslims find it impossible to accept any other faith or point of view, they are willing to carry out mohammeds command to convert by the sword all men of the world.


For all you that support Hammas I will pay for your ticket one way to palestine live among them for 6 months while telling them that you are not a muslim and will never convert to islam, the reason for the ticket being one way is I hate waste and a plane ticket for a corpse is waste.


if you are not willing to take me up on my offer then shut up as you do not have the conviction of your words.

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For all you that support Hammas I will pay for your ticket one way to palestine live among them for 6 months while telling them that you are not a muslim and will never convert to islam


No thanks. I doubt I would manage to last the six months. People who have been brought up on an extremist lie can be quite tetchy with folk who have "weird" ideas like me.

When I went to school we were told to have faith in a book with some pretty hardline ideals


Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded.  Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they dieâ€.


However, against all reason, every time I tried to stone someone I would be sent to the head (go figure) so I looked for a better way myself.

Those who live where they praise those who stone the non believer are not totally to blame, Those who promote BS are.

I doubt the pope would enjoy the privilages he does today if it had not been enforced with flame and spikey things in the past or the gullibility of the present flock (baa)

But the lie does not have to be the god. An event will do to keep us at each others throats if we choose to comply and some folk just love to have something to believe in; no matter the cost.

Truth is there's bout 6.7 billion of us and we are going to tred on one anothers toes whatever we try now so you can thank the likes of forward thinkers like our own Styles and the good old Illuminati who are full of ideas of how to keep the heaving masses in check.

Just sit back and enjoy the fireworks but remember there are only 500,000,000 places going so don't forget to duck. :wink:

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“Zionism is as extremist an ideology as one can conceive.â€


Namely, as bad or worse than the Nazis?


Your comparison of extremes of Zionism with Nazism, and carrying the comparison onto current leaders, Netanyahu, and Livni can only hope to stand alongside some of the nationalistic aspects of Nazism.


I don't think it really matters just what the top-ten of extremism is. Once you go beyond a certain threshold it is all pretty ugly.


Is a good way of levelling off Zionism’s extreme nationalist aspect of the Irgun with the Nazis’ extreme nationalism while still maintaining an association between Zionism and the attempted extermination of an entire race. I can’t really accept the comparison as anything other than trying to make an association with Nazism that isn’t there. You could have chosen any other nationalistic movement or nationalistic aspect of a movement.


The way that the NYT (and other mainstream commentators) consider the status of her Irgun father and mother to be impeccable credentials, is a perfect indication that the average views within Zionism today are, by my standards, extremist.
I would suggest that a state where two of the candidates likely to win (not just contest, but to win) the highest office have such backgrounds, must be classed as extremist.


The NYT commentator used the phrase "impeccable nationalist credentials" when describing her appointment to Mossad and doesn't explicitly ascribe these to the status of her father and mother. Views about her having impeccable nationalistic credentials elsewhere are usually expressed in regards to her position in right wing Israeli politics not a general consensus among people that her nationalism is somehow impeccable.


Livni may revere her father but it doesn’t look like she is like him. She doesn’t sound like an extremist. All from the NYT article.


But her motivational dream of a two-state peace — one at odds with the Greater Israel map on her father’s grave


She did not leave Likud to follow Sharon, she insists. She left “because there is a need to promote a peace process†and Likud is a party “whose ideology starts with the word ‘no.’ â€


“I still believe in our right to the whole land, but felt it was more important to make a compromise. We cannot solve who was right or wrong in 1948 or decide who is more just. The Palestinians can feel justice is on their side, and I can feel it is on my side. What we have to decide about is not history but the future.â€


“My father expressed a combination of values,†she told me, sitting in that office. “There was the understanding that the whole land of Israel was our heritage, but the other part was the need to respect others, not to control others’ lives. And because of the need to make a combination of these values, not to bring them into contradiction, I got to my own conclusion, that there is a need to divide the land.â€


I would say that todays Zionists are typically extremists and that the liberal Zionist is now as rare as hens teeth.


I personally know about a dozen, Israel's president in my opinion is one, here is a great example of one http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=525


and Israel's next PM might be one.

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get your passport and visa sorted claudias an I'll sort de ticket, bet I get a lot more sleep than you or your mam, but if you leave palestine before 6 months is up, unless medical emergency you pay me back with interest, (at current rates wont be that much). Travel insurance is your responsability and also a condition of me buying your ticket, I don't want your mam suing me to get your body or bits of it home when it all goes pear shaped on you.


If you spend six months there and live I will be happy to discuss the finer points of it with you and will even give your position some respect, but until then shut up you haven't got a clue.


You might wonder whats in it for me, if I'm lucky I will have helped some one to have a better understanding of the world unfortunately for you it will probably come to you just as they cut your head of with a rusty knife.


pack your bags claudias (that name should go down well in palestine :lol: )I'm happy to keep up my end of the bargain.



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^ ^ ^

You are not offering any bargains SS,just making your normal,know-all statements. I was working with Arabs and associating with Oilies before you were born so don't tell me that you can offer me a better understanding of the world.

People who need to work in Palestine have far more need to be afraid of the Israelis than they need to fear the Palestinians they are helping. Wind your neck in!

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loads of aid workers and journalists reporting on the death and destruction wrought by the israeli's have been kidnapped and killed by the palestinians this quaint hobby they have goes way back Terry waite was in a hole the first time I was out there.


get your passport Claudias or shut up

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We can take it from that reply that you do not wish to spend time in palestine, you do not have the courage of your convictions claudias.

I would tell you to wind your own head in but it probably already is.

It is easy to form an opinion sitting safely behind your computer screen, but my offer is still open to you if you wish to live the dream :lol:


I am not telling you to take my word for it, I'm offering to pay your fare so you can find out the truth for your self.

If you want folk to accept that you know what your talking about would it not be a good idea if you actually did, or that you could say "I should know I've been there"

Otherwise everything you think you know is just hearsay.

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We can take it from that reply that you do not wish to spend time in palestine, you do not have the courage of your convictions claudias.


Otherwise everything you think you know is just hearsay.


I would love to spend time in Palestine helping to right some of the wrongs which warmongers like you have wrought, however I believe in the old adage "When in Rome do as the Romans do". Doubtless the aid agencies give their workers plenty of advice about how to deal with the native inhabitants. They will certainly not advocate the deliberate antagonisation of the Hamas authorities which you would place on my visit. Is the encouragement of suicide not illegal?


Where do you get the authority for your statements? You may have lived in Middle East countries for short periods but,like almost all of your co-workers, you live in secure compounds and have virtually no contact with the locals. This kind of existence certainly does not qualify you as a consultant on foreign affairs nor does your youth give you the benefit of wisdom.

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loads of aid workers and journalists reporting on the death and destruction wrought by the israeli's have been kidnapped and killed by the palestinians this quaint hobby they have goes way back Terry waite was in a hole the first time I was out there.


Care to name some of these murdered aid workers sheepshagger? Can you provide a link to a story of even one aid worker or journalist being killed, or should we just believe that "loads" have been murdered because you say so? And Terry Waite was kidnapped in Beirut. Get your facts right.

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