Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states

[Guest Anonymous]

Christian woman sentenced to death in pakistan, for insulting mohamed.

cant find the link just now but it is there believe me

It seemingly started when this women who was working in the field with muslim women fetched water for them all to drink. The muslims would not drink it as it was tainted by the filthy christian, they then chased her through the village baying for her death the cops got involved and after locking the woman up for her own safety then charged her with blasphemy or some such sharn. The courts found her guilty after being locked up in solitary for a year sentenced her to death.

Quite common this in muslim countries even though her sentence will probably be reduced she will also more than likely be killed anyway by a muslim fanatic because she is obviously guilty of a henious crime.

What a sad and depressing place to live and they want to bring there mad religion over here.

[NewMagnie]

...when we already have enough mad religions of our own.

 

Thing is Bob, 'they' already have brought their religion over here - more than a few mosques and imams around mainland UK eenoo - but we don't see anyone being stoned on the streets of Brimingham.

 

(I'll forestall the wordplay boys - yes, there are probably plenty of people 'stoned' on the streets of Birmingham...)

 

But lets get back to the topic in hand - it's not hard to compile competing lists of judicial wrongdong between Israel and the Arab States. Israel with its entrenched Zionism, Semitic Apartheid, fondness for white phosporous shells and overzealous attitude to randy Palestinians and the surrounding Arab world with its (varying degrees of) attachment to Sharia law and its attendant limb-lopping and stoning, medieval attitude to women and jihadi tendencies.

 

Yeah - broad brush I know, plenty of Arab communities that are educated, enlightened and tolerant and plenty of moderate Israelis who can do little but shake their heads at the whole sorry debacle, but you get my point - we could trade blow for blow on this one for a long time.

 

Sod 'em all I reckon - or in a slightly more literate phrase, a plague on both their houses. I'm less and less inclined to take sides on this one.

[Guest Anonymous]

dont get me wrong NM I am not taking sides just pointing out that the neck of the woods they are in is seriously darlingedd up with religion no matter what they call god or who his true prophet/son was.

[Gibber]

When I here of laws being abused in this manner, with a well spoken lady on the telly sitting as some sort of Israel representative, giving it, in civilized tones, that this is right and proper, without anybody pulling her up, as the lying, twisted faced git that she is, talking outright, plain to see sh1te, right at us.

 

No, again, and thankfully; she is no more a representative of Israel than you are of Britain. She represents a rape crisis centre in Israel. That’s the rub isn’t it? 1 Israeli (the rape crisis woman, the judge or the Jewish woman that brought the charges) does something you disapprove of and the whole country is at fault in your eyes.

 

"Well you should see what them lot are doing over there" is no mitigation for this sort of abuse, while claiming the moral high ground.

 

That's right, but why do you think you can from totally ignoring 'whats going on over there' that is degrees of magnitude worse? Ah, this is why…

 

I don't feel the need to get drawn into debate, say, about someone standing waving a banner with "ISLAM WILL RULE THE WORLD AND WE MIGHT WELL NEED TO CHOP YOUR HEAD OFF WHEN WE DO" because there is a kind of brutal honesty with it; in that they are clearly telling any reasonable thinking person that they are an absolute f'kin nutjob with only the slightest grasp of reality.

 

You plainly would if it was Israel doing it. And none of your criticism on this thread is directed toward Arab’s in any form so are we to assume you regard them all as flag burning jihad hand chopping extremists? This view is as bigoted as your views on Jews, and as you said, 2 wrongs don’t make a right. And I’m not talking (in the first instance anyway) about this kind of thing, I’m talking about mass media institutionalised blatant anti-Semitism. Why is it that you cannot address this critically? It’s because you agree with the Jewish conspiracy elements and the Nazi comparisons and whatever else is being published in Cairo this very minute. The Guardian has taught your kind not call individual Jews pigs or dirty so you desperately scrabble around Stormfront.org to cite evidence of the Jews as a collective, and what better collective of Jews than Israel to disproportionately criticise?

 

Your entire point of view is anti Israel, from pejorative inaccuracies and assumptions about its society and history to outright lies about the Holocaust Your inability to address anything critically to anything near the same extent about the Middle East other than Israel means you are prejudiced.

 

If any bloke didn't make it through their teenage years without the odd porky pie being used to shorten travel time to the desired destination with the girl of their weekend dreams; then the fact that a lawyer could use it to secure a conviction of rape, is something that is well needed to be looked at.

 

The one thing you got right, and the one thing that isn't particular to Israel.

 

Go on K, this thread is entitled 'Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states' after all, lets see if you can overcome the cultural relativity you and the Guardian have been trained to unquestioningly obey. Or is that just too far to bend for even such a (self styled) free thinker like you?

 

Didn't

 

think

 

so

[Gibber]

Thing is Bob, 'they' already have brought their religion over here - more than a few mosques and imams around mainland UK eenoo - but we don't see anyone being stoned on the streets of Brimingham.

 

From yesterday

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11716272

 

Yeah - broad brush I know, ...Sod 'em all I reckon - or in a slightly more literate phrase, a plague on both their houses. I'm less and less inclined to take sides on this one.

 

Why do you think there is a moral equivalence between Israeli and Arab societies? For its faults Israel is broadly a liberal secular democracy most Arab states are not yet near this level of development. You're brush is indeed too broad, yet remarkably accurate enough to sweep past comment on your own society.

 

Let me help you out

 

Sod you too if you think you are part of a more enlightened culture than Jewish culture, you are not. Western European culture has enjoyed the fruits of Jewish over acheivement while at the same time persecuted it for thousands of years. Your religion is an offshoot of Judaism, your academic development is far and away disproportionately the result of Jewish endeavour and your economic positioning while helped by your thirst for empire is down to Jews who were denied employment in respectable positions because of Christian hypocritisim. And for balance, Arabs had a functioning sophisticated society while your ancestors were rubbing themselves with cowsh[t to keep warm.

 

You are better at chasing a ball around a park though.

[Gibber]

dont get me wrong NM I am not taking sides just pointing out that the neck of the woods they are in is seriously darling up with religion no matter what they call god or who his true prophet/son was.

 

Look around any town in Scotland and see how many churches you can count. Read a book and see what evils Christianity has done. Israel is a secular state, it isn't governed (to any significant extent) by religious dogma. This is not the case for a number of Arab states.

[Guest Anonymous]

Your religion is an offshoot of Judaism,

not my religion but I take it you mean christianity, islam is also an offshoot of judaism so we could read into that that all the present troubles stem from judaism.

as for rubbing ourselves with cowturd to keep warm I always assumed we used it to fill da cracks atween da stanes o da waas, and after that burnt da dried stuff apo da hearth but i guess we learn something new every day.

this would be at the same time your lot were running around following every mad sod that claimed to be the mesiah, (hes not the mesiah hes a very naughty boy).

Quite frankly when it comes to civilised behavior the scandanavians were streets ahead of any medeteranian culture, what with womens rights udal law none of this Im the boss cause god says so bull up this way, and the viking raids were a direct result of the 1 god and hes ours mob invading and murdering anyone that disagreed with them. refugees from charlemange flooding north and creating preasure for land and resourses.

So please dont try taking the moral high ground as your lot started all this 1 god and were right crap in the first place.

yes your lot were persecuted in europe and the middle east but if you want someone to blame look to rome

[Gibber]

I don't mean to take the moral high ground, but rather take exception to someone saying sod em all as if 'they're lot' isn't at the very least equally if not more worthy of being sodded.

[shetlandpeat]

It seems Israel are pushing to attack Iran.

 

And with the news that they are building more homes in occupied land, it seems they are taking allot on.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

The Guardian has taught your kind not call individual Jews pigs or dirty so you desperately scrabble around Stormfront.org to cite evidence of the Jews as a collective

 

LoL, I Dunno !

 

 

Go on K, this thread is entitled 'Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states' after all, lets see if you can overcome the cultural relativity you and the Guardian have been trained to unquestioningly obey. Or is that just too far to bend for even such a (self styled) free thinker like you?

 

Don't you of all people, bring me no jibba jabba about balance and bias on this thread.

 

I'll post as I want to.

Request lines are closed.

[NewMagnie]

dont get me wrong NM I am not taking sides just pointing out that the neck of the woods they are in is seriously darling up with religion no matter what they call god or who his true prophet/son was.

 

Nah - not directed at you Bob - just making a general point.

[NewMagnie]

Thing is Bob, 'they' already have brought their religion over here - more than a few mosques and imams around mainland UK eenoo - but we don't see anyone being stoned on the streets of Brimingham.

 

From yesterday

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11716272

 

Yeah - broad brush I know, ...Sod 'em all I reckon - or in a slightly more literate phrase, a plague on both their houses. I'm less and less inclined to take sides on this one.

 

Why do you think there is a moral equivalence between Israeli and Arab societies? For its faults Israel is broadly a liberal secular democracy most Arab states are not yet near this level of development. You're brush is indeed too broad, yet remarkably accurate enough to sweep past comment on your own society.

 

Let me help you out

 

Sod you too if you think you are part of a more enlightened culture than Jewish culture, you are not. Western European culture has enjoyed the fruits of Jewish over acheivement while at the same time persecuted it for thousands of years. Your religion is an offshoot of Judaism, your academic development is far and away disproportionately the result of Jewish endeavour and your economic positioning while helped by your thirst for empire is down to Jews who were denied employment in respectable positions because of Christian hypocritisim. And for balance, Arabs had a functioning sophisticated society while your ancestors were rubbing themselves with cowsh[t to keep warm.

 

You are better at chasing a ball around a park though.

 

You think so?

 

I think you're perfectly aware that I'm referring to the introduction of Sharia law and not a one off murder that the criminal courts in this country sent the perpetrators to jail for. An offence bad enough for a putatively Muslim country to extradite those implicated in it to boot. What's your point? My apologies if my glib remarks on a little internet forum didn't reveal the full gist of my views on the subject.

 

I don't need your help pal. If you're dumb enough to adopt an absolutist stance on this, your feeblemindedness knows no bounds.

 

Of course there's a moral equivalence between individual acts. The level of development of democratic government in, for example, Syria, doesn't excuse the IDF using Palestinian kids as human shields. Nor does it excuse Hamas' firing rockets into Sderot.

 

The fact is we hold the Israeli nation to higher standards precisely because they are one of the more developed nations in the region, we hold them to standards that we apply to ourselves. Yes, they are a broadly liberal democratic society - for all that they repeatedly elect governments that indulge in flouting UN resolutions and engaging in extra-judicial killings. They have a lot in common with us - that's probably what makes most Europeans despair at the whole sorry deal.

 

Beside your repeated conflation of Jewish and Israeli (while understandable to a point) reveals the depth of your actual grasp of the subject.

 

But to my main point "Your Religion"?

 

What the hell gives you the right to assume what my religious views are - if any?

 

Western culture's economic and military ascendancy and academic achievements probably owes something to Jewish contributions - as well as Arab contributions among a whole heap of others They did chuck in little things like our numeric system, written language, some of the oldest universities in the world, etc - that the empires of Europe were built upon the shoulders of others is well known - but to single out the Jews in this context is idiotic.

 

Its way too complex to put it down to the contributions of one people - perhaps you need to read your O level history books again, and a little more carefully.

 

"your academic development is far and away disproportionately the result of Jewish endeavour" - total cr@p - yes, they're a people who value learning, if we stick with stereotype anyway - but "disproportionately"? - you're raving.

 

I'd love to keep shooting holes in your illiterate apology for a post, but frankly, its like shooting fish in barrel.

[Guest Anonymous]

Don't you of all people, bring me no jibba jabba

 

been watching boston legal Koy?

[Gibber]

I think you're perfectly aware that I'm referring to the introduction of Sharia law and not a one off murder that the criminal courts in this country sent the perpetrators to jail for.

 

Honour killings aren't one off murders and they are religiously motivated. It wasn't clear that you were referring to Sharia law becoming institutionalised in Britain.

 

I don't need your help pal. If you're dumb enough to adopt an absolutist stance on this, your feeblemindedness knows no bounds.

 

Sod em all is as absolutist and for that matter, negative as it gets.

 

Of course there's a moral equivalence between individual acts.

 

It seems like you're talking about states not acts although I don't really know what the judicial wrongdoing bit means in this sentence.

 

judicial wrongdong between Israel and the Arab States.

 

But I take your point you meant immoral acts.

 

The fact is we hold the Israeli nation to higher standards precisely because they are one of the more developed nations in the region,

 

But this is the interesting part and it echoes K’s thoughts about how his criticism of extremists is pointless whereas disproportionately criticising the liberal secular democracy of Israel is some sort of justifiable moral crusade. Although this doesn’t explain why he (and indeed many) will never criticise the less extreme, yet still morally wrong and institutionalised facets of Arab states that fall short of the flag burning jihadist hand chopping extremists, but will get very excited when some Israeli Judge makes a stupid decision or upholds a stupid law because of a prejudiced Israeli woman. And for that matter, Israel's crimes are as extreme and as blatant as hand chopping Jihadists for people like him, the naziesque mass murder of innocent Palestinian children etc. yet this doesn't fall under the 'its too obvious to comment upon' escape clause that is reserved for states that aren't Israel.

 

In the first instance why do you think you have the right to demand a higher standard? And wouldn't it be more sensible to hold others up to a higher standard instead of concentrating on the secular modern liberal democratic Israel? By your reasoning the more developed as a culture or society Israel becomes the more criticism it should attract because a higher and higher standard is demanded of it. Seems to be the wrong way around to me.

 

Its way too complex to put it down to the contributions of one people - perhaps you need to read your O level history books again, and a little more carefully.

 

I'm not putting it all down to one people, I'm making the point that someone from a Western European Christian culture has no right to demand higher standards from Israel or write off their existence with a sod em all. Read your own history, Britain has only recently managed to start crawling out of the class system.

 

"your academic development is far and away disproportionately the result of Jewish endeavour" - total cr@p - yes, they're a people who value learning, if we stick with stereotype anyway - but "disproportionately"? - you're raving.

 

Sorry you're wrong

 

http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/antisemitic-people-and-jewish-overachievers.html

 

Disproportionate Jewish overachievement is well documented. It’s not a stereotype, it’s a Jewish cultural norm to value education. This overachievement has also been attributed to genetics too.

 

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/jewish-genius-10855?page=all

 

Sorry I can’t link to this for copyright reasons (because it’s from a special kind of Wikipedia, a genuine, real science article K!) and I've emboldened it to break up the text.

 

"How to explain high Jewish achievement: The role of intelligence and values

Personality and Individual Differences

Volume 44, Issue 4, March 2008, Pages 801-808

 

Richard Lynn

 

The results contain five principal points of interest.

 

First, on the vocabulary test adopted as a measure of intelligence, Jews obtained an average score equivalent to 9.25 IQ points higher than non-Jewish whites. This is closely similar to the Jewish IQ advantage of approximately 10 IQ points found in a number of other studies noted in the introduction. An IQ advantage of this magnitude is sufficient to explain most and perhaps all of the high Jewish achievement.

 

A population of gentiles with an average IQ of 100 has approximately 2% of individuals with an IQ of 130 and above. Jews with an average of IQ 110 should have about 9% of individuals with IQs at this level. At IQs above 145, Jews should have approximately seven times the proportion of gentiles (approximately 0.14% of the population of gentiles and approximately 0.98% of Jews).

 

These differences go a considerable way to explaining the high achievements of Jews.

 

Second, the results do not provide any evidence for the theory that Jews attach more importance to success or to studiousness than non-Jews. In fact Jews attach less importance to success and to studiousness than non-Jews in the results set out in both Table 1 and Table 2, although the differences between Jews and non-Jewish are not statistically significant.

 

Third, Jews do attach more importance to four values than non-Jews. These are considerateness, interest in how and why things happen, judgment, and responsibility, but it is not easy to see how these would contribute to the success of Jews in virtually all walks of life.

 

The results that Jewish parents are more likely to foster interest in how and why things happen suggest that this might contribute to the high Jewish achievement in science, but Jews have been equally successful in law, the humanities and business, for which an interest in how and why things happen would not seem to confer any obvious advantage.

 

Fourth, Jews do not differ much from others in the values they would most like their children to have. Jews and non-Jews attach most importance to their children having good judgement, being considerate, honest and responsible, and Jews and non-Jews attach least importance to their children valuing cleanliness and appropriate sex role behaviour.

 

Fifth, the results clearly support the high intelligence theory of Jewish achievement while at the same time provide no support for the cultural values theory as an explanation for Jewish success. Although the high Jewish IQ has been known for many decades, it has typically been ignored by historians, sociologists, and economists who have written on the high achievements of the Jews.....Yet it would appear that high intelligence is the most promising explanation of Jewish achievement."

 

People like K and Damn Saxon will latch onto Jewish conspiracy theory to explain overachievement in fields such as banking and politics. As I brilliantly contrasted in a previous post why doesn’t K or Damn Saxon claim a black conspiracy in the fields of athletics or basketball?

 

Beside your repeated conflation of Jewish and Israeli (while understandable to a point) reveals the depth of your actual grasp of the subject.

 

Thanks, hopefully I'll be able to help your understanding further.

 

ps, if you're going to call me illiterate you might want to stop using words like wrongdong.

[Gibber]

Go on K, this thread is entitled 'Israel vs. Middle Eastern Arab states' after all, lets see if you can overcome the cultural relativity you and the Guardian have been trained to unquestioningly obey. Or is that just too far to bend for even such a (self styled) free thinker like you?

 

Don't you of all people, bring me no jibba jabba about balance and bias on this thread.

 

I'll post as I want to.

Request lines are closed.

 

Didn't think so.

 

My opinions on Israel are backed up by argument and personal experience of the country and people. I've just criticised an Israeli judge and by extension a part of Israeli law, off the top of my head I've criticised the settlements, Netanyahu and Shas previously. EM couldn't bring himself to post one positive thing about Israel when pressed so lets see a genuine and strong criticism from you of some element of Gazan society. Or are you just not able?