ATOS

[MuckleJoannie]

Panorama tonight (BBC1, 8.30pm) looks into 'The Great Disability Scam' - The fortune being made by private companies, paid by the government to get disabled people off the benefit books - and failing!

 

I heard this being refered to on the news this morning with one company referring to its clients in highly disparaging terms. There seems to be 2 different versions of the same programme on at 8.30 tonight.

 

BBC Scotland Investigates

Parking the Disabled

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qh7js

In Scotland only half of all people with a disability are in work. BBC Scotland investigates if one of the Government's most ambitious welfare reforms, costing billions of pounds, can solve the problem of disability unemployment. Reporter Sam Poling reveals the private companies who are getting rich from the new reforms despite only being able to get a small fraction of disabled people back to work, and speaks to the charities who feel the most vulnerable in our society are being failed.

 

Panorama

The Great Disability Scam?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qgk9h

 

Only half of all people with a disability are in work. Panorama investigates if one of the government's most ambitious welfare reforms, costing billions of pounds, can solve the problem of disability unemployment. Reporter Sam Poling reveals the private companies who are getting rich from the new reforms despite only being able to get a small fraction of disabled people back to work, and speaks to the charities who feel the most vulnerable in our society are being failed.

[go.oot.by.dog]

I had a look at the ATOS website and the Shetland assessment centre is given as Market House, Market Street. Does part of NHS Shetland work from there ?

 

ATOS use this building to carry out their Work Capability Assessments. As far as i know NHS do not work from there.

[go.oot.by.dog]

Panorama tonight (BBC1, 8.30pm) looks into 'The Great Disability Scam' - The fortune being made by private companies, paid by the government to get disabled people off the benefit books - and failing!

 

I heard this being refered to on the news this morning with one company referring to its clients in highly disparaging terms. There seems to be 2 different versions of the same programme on at 8.30 tonight.

 

BBC Scotland Investigates

Parking the Disabled

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qh7js

In Scotland only half of all people with a disability are in work. BBC Scotland investigates if one of the Government's most ambitious welfare reforms, costing billions of pounds, can solve the problem of disability unemployment. Reporter Sam Poling reveals the private companies who are getting rich from the new reforms despite only being able to get a small fraction of disabled people back to work, and speaks to the charities who feel the most vulnerable in our society are being failed.

 

Panorama

The Great Disability Scam?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qgk9h

 

Only half of all people with a disability are in work. Panorama investigates if one of the government's most ambitious welfare reforms, costing billions of pounds, can solve the problem of disability unemployment. Reporter Sam Poling reveals the private companies who are getting rich from the new reforms despite only being able to get a small fraction of disabled people back to work, and speaks to the charities who feel the most vulnerable in our society are being failed.

 

Well spotted MuckleJoannie (assuming they are different) and for those of you with Sky you can get the other version on Channel 952 (careful with that digits though!) at the same time or via BBC iplayer.

[MuckleJoannie]

Here's the BBC website story on the programme

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21196616

 

On paper, Linda Smith's job with an Aberdeen company was straightforward - she was meant to be helping the long-term unemployed - many of them disabled - to find jobs and move off benefits.

 

The reality, she said, was a corporate culture that saw staff in training sessions referring to those same people as LTBs - code for "lying, thieving boobalubes".

 

That was the phrase I was trying to remember for my earlier post.

 

Edit for spelling

[go.oot.by.dog]

Well pretty much as i expected and to sum it up in one word i would say "corrupt" And not at all surprised that yet again it is the most poor and vulnerable who are suffering the most while others are profiting from it.

 

And if anyone is to be called Lying Thieving Barstewards i think we need look no further than the Con-Dems AKA the Lying Tory Barstewards.

[shetlandpeat]

I have met Sue, fighter she is...and has a great team

 

http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/dwp-can-run-but-they-cant-hide.html

[unlinkedstudent]

I don't think any assessment system has ever been perfect. To be honest, I'm sick and tired of hearing about ConDemNation as Labour were no better.

 

Personally, I think more attention should be paid to what hospital consultants say about a person's condition and medical reports as opposed to a computer program-based system. I don't necessarily agree with being reliant on information solely from GPs because again, whether we like it or not, there are some GPs who will write you out a sick note and don't even examine you, look at your case history, etc. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying all GPs are like that but let's be honest, how many of us have managed to obtain a sick note pretty easily from our GPs?

 

So what precisely and how do you intend ensuring that the disabled get what they deserve and those who are capable of work don't ponce off the system? (And yes, I am aware that there are many disabled people who do work and also, quite rightly, get DLA). Whether you care to admit IT or not, there are those who do take the pee wee, such as making out they have a dodgy back yet are seen up a ladder doing cash-in-hand work yet state they can never get out of bed let alone do any shopping.

 

Or is it a case of screw you honest taxpayers and let's have a life on the dole and/or other benefits? What are the alternatives to ATOS?

[go.oot.by.dog]

I don't think any assessment system has ever been perfect. To be honest, I'm sick and tired of hearing about ConDemNation as Labour were no better.

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I absolutely agree with you there as it was actually Labour who introduced the Work Capability Assessment to begin with.

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Personally, I think more attention should be paid to what hospital consultants say about a person's condition and medical reports as opposed to a computer program-based system. I don't necessarily agree with being reliant on information solely from GPs because again, whether we like it or not, there are some GPs who will write you out a sick note and don't even examine you, look at your case history, etc. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying all GPs are like that but let's be honest, how many of us have managed to obtain a sick note pretty easily from our GPs?

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If your implying that most GPs are corrupt also then i must disagree with you on this one as it certainly has not been my experience with them. However again like i have already said in this topic that in every walk of life there will be some who will abuse the system in one way or another and i do not think the way to rectify that is to punish the ones who are not abusing the system.

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So what precisely and how do you intend ensuring that the disabled get what they deserve and those who are capable of work don't ponce off the system? (And yes, I am aware that there are many disabled people who do work and also, quite rightly, get DLA). Whether you care to admit IT or not, there are those who do take the pee wee, such as making out they have a dodgy back yet are seen up a ladder doing cash-in-hand work yet state they can never get out of bed let alone do any shopping.

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You have already stated that "more attention should be paid to what hospital consultants say about a person's condition and medical reports" which i think would be quite a good start to improving the system which is in place and is not fit for purpose. As for the person "up a ladder doing cash-in-hand work" surely when compared to the likes of the MPs who were fraudulently claiming expenses for thousands of pounds kind of puts that into perspective and they are the ones who are suppose to be running the country!!! where as the chap you imply to, which i agree is still wrong but why worry so much about him and not even mention the failings at the top end of the scale, Vodafone, Starbucks, Amazon to mention a few or the fact that anyone earning over a million pounds a year is to get a tax rebate of £2000 a week whilst benefits are going up by on average 71 pence a week.

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Or is it a case of screw you honest taxpayers and let's have a life on the dole and/or other benefits? What are the alternatives to ATOS?

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As for "screwing the honest taxpayers" as i have already said above and also, would you say that to the Mother, Father, Son, Daughter of any of the reported 10600 deaths which have directly been linked to ATOS and their flawed assessments and there is no doubt in my mind the real figure would be MUCh higher. Whilst on the flip side they may have weeded out some who "were at it" but look at the cost in lives to the most vulnerable.

 

If anyone is screwing the "honest taxpayer" i think you need look no further than Westminster.

[Distortio]

yes, yes, new labour introduced the system in the first place, but the tories have really run with it.

 

for anyone without a functioning sense of perspective it's worth noting that:

 

benefit fraud = £1.1bn

unclaimed benefits = £12.7bn

VAT fraud = £11bn

tax dodging = £35-70bn+

uk bank bailouts = £850bn

 

and disability benefit fraud is measured by the government's own figures as 0.5% but of course that doesn't fit the way they and the daily mail would like the debate to pan out. much better to sound byte it all away with the 'skivers vs strivers' nonsense and quietly siphon taxpayer money away to their private sector friends while the plebs fight among themselves over which of them deserves to be punished the most.

[go.oot.by.dog]

yes, yes, new labour introduced the system in the first place, but the tories have really run with it.

 

for anyone without a functioning sense of perspective it's worth noting that:

 

benefit fraud = £1.1bn

unclaimed benefits = £12.7bn

VAT fraud = £11bn

tax dodging = £35-70bn+

uk bank bailouts = £850bn

 

and disability benefit fraud is measured by the government's own figures as 0.5% but of course that doesn't fit the way they and the daily mail would like the debate to pan out. much better to sound byte it all away with the 'skivers vs strivers' nonsense and quietly siphon taxpayer money away to their private sector friends while the plebs fight among themselves over which of them deserves to be punished the most.

 

[go.oot.by.dog]

Ex Atos Nurse Reveals The Real Inside Story….

 

http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2013/01/31/ex-atos-nurse-reveals-the-real-inside-story/

[shetlandpeat]

http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/that-day-when-brown-envelope-of-terror.html

[unlinkedstudent]

yes, yes, new labour introduced the system in the first place, but the tories have really run with it.

 

for anyone without a functioning sense of perspective it's worth noting that:

 

benefit fraud = £1.1bn

unclaimed benefits = £12.7bn

VAT fraud = £11bn

tax dodging = £35-70bn+

uk bank bailouts = £850bn

 

and disability benefit fraud is measured by the government's own figures as 0.5% but of course that doesn't fit the way they and the daily mail would like the debate to pan out. much better to sound byte it all away with the 'skivers vs strivers' nonsense and quietly siphon taxpayer money away to their private sector friends while the plebs fight among themselves over which of them deserves to be punished the most.

 

So no one borrowed money from the banks and failed to pay it back?

 

So no one is claiming benefits they ain't entitled to and also working cash-in-hand, thus also being in the tax dodging bracket?

 

It shouldn't be all about money. What about morals? Is it right that someone can be working a 40 hour week yet take home less than someone on benefits who also does fiddle the system? Or should we all adopt the attitude, "To hell with it, so and so is fiddling the system so we should too."?

 

GB PLC - bankrupt? I've never said the bankers were innocent but two wrongs don't make a right, do they, or are you saying they do?

 

Still waiting to hear more answers on how you'd make it fairer for all.

[Distortio]

So no one borrowed money from the banks and failed to pay it back?

 

who said that? of course people borrowed from banks and couldn't pay it back. banks knew this. that's why they lent to people who couldn't pay it back, to keep the market appearing buoyant, and of course when they default they then get to repossess their house or whatever too.

 

So no one is claiming benefits they ain't entitled to and also working cash-in-hand, thus also being in the tax dodging bracket?

 

again, who said this? i said it was a question of PERSPECTIVE. more benefits money goes unclaimed than is lost through a tiny minority doing some cash in hand work. and however much they've dodged in tax is surely dwarfed to the point of irrelevance by the scale and magnitude of corporate tax dodging. to equate the 2 is absurd when you consider their relative impact.

 

It shouldn't be all about money. What about morals?

 

HA! oh my aching sides...

 

Is it right that someone can be working a 40 hour week yet take home less than someone on benefits who also does fiddle the system?

 

*sigh* no. obviously. why don't you just go all out and ask if it's right that bad people stomp on flowers?

 

someone working 40 hours a week should be paid a decent living wage, and don't forget that housing benefit, child benefits, tax credits etc are also claimed by people in work, as rapidly increasing numbers show.

 

Or should we all adopt the attitude, "To hell with it, so and so is fiddling the system so we should too."?

 

first proper question. in a sense i'm almost tempted to say yes. when those at the top "fiddle the system" or create rules which allow them to operate with impunity, or blatantly outside the law knowing full well they cannot be prosecuted due to the wider implications of doing so, what good is the moral high ground to those at the bottom while they are being demonised and even blamed for the very problems those at the top created?

 

but really i'm more inclined to think anyone dedicated enough to fiddling the system would have to undergo such a grueling ordeal of form-filling they probably deserve everything they get, be it some extra money or prosecuted (as some kind of divine justice for their obviously bureaucratic nature).

 

GB PLC - bankrupt? I've never said the bankers were innocent but two wrongs don't make a right, do they, or are you saying they do?

 

again, no. i didn't say anything of the kind. where are you getting this stuff?

 

but you do appear to be saying that since the bankers "got it wrong" by routinely committing criminal acts and collapsing the economy, the correct way to deal with this is to slash the incomes of the poorest members of society. no, you didn't say the bankers were innocent, but you were quick enough to get on the tory rhetoric bandwagon about who should be taking the hit to pay for their tax breaks and bonuses and keep them in cocaine and fast cars and caviar.

 

Still waiting to hear more answers on how you'd make it fairer for all.

 

still waiting? this is the first you've asked me. another time maybe, life beckons...

[ArabiaTerra]

yes, yes, new labour introduced the system in the first place, but the tories have really run with it.

 

for anyone without a functioning sense of perspective it's worth noting that:

 

benefit fraud = £1.1bn

unclaimed benefits = £12.7bn

VAT fraud = £11bn

tax dodging = £35-70bn+

uk bank bailouts = £850bn

 

and disability benefit fraud is measured by the government's own figures as 0.5% but of course that doesn't fit the way they and the daily mail would like the debate to pan out. much better to sound byte it all away with the 'skivers vs strivers' nonsense and quietly siphon taxpayer money away to their private sector friends while the plebs fight among themselves over which of them deserves to be punished the most.

 

So no one borrowed money from the banks and failed to pay it back?

 

So no one is claiming benefits they ain't entitled to and also working cash-in-hand, thus also being in the tax dodging bracket?

 

It shouldn't be all about money. What about morals? Is it right that someone can be working a 40 hour week yet take home less than someone on benefits who also does fiddle the system? Or should we all adopt the attitude, "To hell with it, so and so is fiddling the system so we should too."?

 

GB PLC - bankrupt? I've never said the bankers were innocent but two wrongs don't make a right, do they, or are you saying they do?

 

Still waiting to hear more answers on how you'd make it fairer for all.

 

Just to pile on to Distortio's most excellent points above:

 

Why the hell should the poor have to pay for the mistakes of the rich?

 

It shouldn't be all about money. What about morals?

 

Bwh-ha-ha-ha!

 

How the hell can you bring up morals in this situation? Please tell me all about the morals of Starbucks, Google and Amazon. Tell me about the morals of Philip Green, Boots or Tesco, Cadbury, Walkers Crisps and Diageo

 

Tell me about the morals of George Osborne, whose first move as Chancellor was to cut taxes on the rich by 5%.

 

I think you need to develop some morals of your own, unlinked, instead of getting them, wholesale, from the Tory press.

 

Edit: A side order of empathy wouldn't go amiss, either.