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daveh your posts are implying that everyone that needs help is a cheat. this is the tory thinking behind pip and atos.

 

new news borrowing has gone up. so all these cuts mean sausage all.

 

I didn't see anywhere that daveh's posts were implying that. He's posting from a different end of the spectrum to the OP and somewhere along the line, there will be middle ground.

 

Cheats exist. The majority of claimants are NOT cheats. But if daveH's posts illustrate anything, it is the sums involved. Granted, some may regard the amounts as small change in the overall picture but the pennies add up. We can't rely on statistics as nobody knows for definite how many cheats go undetected and likewise, nobody knows for definite how many people should be claiming benefits to which they are entitled and don't.

 

There's three sides to each story: the two opposing sides and somewhere, the third side, namely the truth.

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daveh your posts are implying that everyone that needs help is a cheat. this is the tory thinking behind pip and atos.

 

new news borrowing has gone up. so all these cuts mean sausage all.

 

paulb - you can interpret whatever you want from my posts. I know that I have never suggested that "everyone that needs help is a cheat". Of course they aren't. However, the previous arrangements, of "an initial assessment and that's it", are too wide open to the abuses as highlighted within my posts. I could post up many more of such examples if you wish and these would give facts of specific cases which may actually be just the tip of the iceberg of what is out there.

 

I fully stand by my point that, if claimants have absolutely nothing to hide, they should have no fear from periodic assessments of their eligibility to continue claiming assistance. As indicated above, there would undoubtedly be instances where some claimants may be assessed and subsequently receive an increased level of benefits than previously due to changes in the personal circumstances. I have absolutely no problem with that, of course.

 

Inicidentally, to be sneering about the fact that 2012/3 borrowings were slightly higher than the previous year is typical of the current Labour party's policy of being cheered up by any occasional bad economic news but ignoring all the many instances of good news. The UK economy, as indicated by the huge deficit and debt left behind by Labour, will take many years to turn around. It would be far, far worse a financial position if Labour, particularly with the idiotic Ed Balls in charge of finance, were still in power. Labour's policy was and still appears to be based upon a spend, spend and spend more mentality. Liam Byrne's "joke", by leaving a note saying that there was no money left, when Labour lost the election, looks to be even less amusing than ever now, I'd suggest.

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As an accountant I am well aware that putting temptation in peoples path can sometimes result in them deviating from the straight and narrow. No profession is exempt but lets not let a few bad apples ruin the reputation of the honest majority.

 

A corrupt chartered accountant from Birmingham has been jailed today for defrauding the British taxpayer of over £1 million in unpaid VAT.

 

http://rnn.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/Press-Releases/Accountant-jailed-in-1m-tax-fraud-68c41.aspx

 

The director of a North East accountancy firm has been jailed for 3 years after committing fraud worth £358,000.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/number-s-up-for-jailed-accountant

 

Crown Prosecution accountant faces jail after £1m taxi fraud

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9931146/Crown-Prosecution-accountant-faces-jail-after-1m-taxi-fraud.html

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^^

 

There is corruption in all walks of life and I obviously don't condone it whenever it occurs. I knew of an instance with just one accountant during my working career and knew of several at clients that we dealt with. However, whenever it can be identified, then appropriate action should always be taken.

 

Once again, there is a suggestion within your post that I am implying that if some claimants commit fraud then everyone must be at it. If that is what you are thinking, about the line I am taking, then it is a ludicrous thought. As accountants, we were always subject to review and our governing body would throw us out immediately at the first sign of any problems in order to maintain the integrity of the profession.

 

Again, going back to the welfare discussion, I repeat that if the benefit claimant has nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear by being assessed on a regular basis and could end up with increased benefits from the process.

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^^

 

Again, going back to the welfare discussion, I repeat that if the benefit claimant has nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear by being assessed on a regular basis and could end up with increased benefits from the process.

 

I think they do actually have something to fear - and that is being ignorant of what is and isn't included and how it is assessed. Many of the complaints that went to Appeal under the old system and also under the new system stemmed from the fact that if you don't put in a certain box in absolutely precise detail how your disability/health issue(s) affect(s) you and rely on the fact that they are in your GP's medical notes will be ignored.

 

I think many people didn't realise previously that they did have the right to appeal and this time around, due to the publicity, more people are aware that they have the right to appeal.

 

I also think that the odd one or two of the OP's links concerning what rights you have and what assessments take into account are helpful, and make a refreshing change from just press reports.

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I think they do actually have something to fear - and that is being ignorant of what is and isn't included and how it is assessed. Many of the complaints that went to Appeal under the old system and also under the new system stemmed from the fact that if you don't put in a certain box in absolutely precise detail how your disability/health issue(s) affect(s) you and rely on the fact that they are in your GP's medical notes will be ignored.

 

That may well be down to confusing information, that would hopefully be amended from feedback received, or folks not reading through the accompanying instructions properly. However, I would see those as being initial teething problems, as encountered with any new processes we see in our lives, rather than a flaw in the concept of the assessments.

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corruption

 

"Michael Fallon is Deputy Chairman of the Tory Party, a senior member of the The Treasury Select Committee ("TSC"), and a senior Board member at Tullet Prebon – a company described to me last night by a City insider as “dominating the Libor sectorâ€. At least three of the major institutions reporting on Libor rates are known to be Tullet clients. Fallon may thus have been questioning one of his clients when he interrogated Bob Diamond of Barclays last Wednesday.

Angela Knight was until recently the CEO of the BBA, an organisation on behalf of which she gave misleading Libor evidence on at least one occasion. She is a non-Exec director of Tullet Prebon, and she used to be a Conservative MP.

 

Michael Spencer is the founder and CEO of ICAP, the largest Libor-sector money brokerage in Europe, he used to be the Tory Party’s Treasurer, and he (and his company) last year donated £1.3m to the Conservative Party. In 2010, Spencer was censured by the City for selling £45m of ICAP shares three weeks before issuing a profit warning.

 

Terry Smith is the CEO of Tullet Prebon. Derek Tullett, founder of inter-dealer broker Tullett Prebon, was listed as ‘a major contributor’ to Tory Party election funding during 2010. On his Board he has collected both Fallon and Knight, and although Fallon says Tullet’s “helped to nail the banks†that must in turn have put Angela Knight into an awkward position, she being the UK’s greatest defender of both the Banks and Libor. Smith spent the first five years of his life working on the investment side at Barclays, and is an Associate at the Chartered Institute of Bankers."

 

In the UK the Serious Fraud Office is FINALLY initiating an inquiry. It is a very revealing that when the SFO advised 2 years ago that they had no funding to make an investigation, specifically into the Libor matter , they were subsequently underfunded even more, by government cuts.

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With Chris Huhne’s sentencing for perverting the course of justice over swapping speeding points with his ex-wife Vicky Pryce, we look at ten other politicians who did time in jail.

 

10 Former cabinet minister Jonathan Aitken was convicted of perjury and perverting the course of justice in 1999. The former Tory MP received an 18-month prison sentence. The sentencing judge told him he had spun a ‘web of deceit’.

 

9 Jeffrey Archer was convicted of perjury and perverting the course of justice during a 1987 libel case. The novelist and former Tory MP was jailed for four years in 2001.

 

8 Tory peer Lord Hanningfield was jailed for nine months in 2011 after being convicted of falsely claiming nearly £14,000 in parliamentary expenses. The former Essex County Council leader spent just nine weeks in prison.

 

7 David Chaytor, ex-Labour MP for Bury North, was jailed for 18 months in 2011 after pleading guilty to fraudulently claiming more than £20,000 in expenses.

 

6 Former Conservative politician Lord Taylor of Warwick was jailed for 12 months in 2011 after falsely claiming £11,277 in travel costs.

 

5 Elliot Morley, former Labour MP for S{by the way, do you realise I tried to swear here?}horpe, was sentenced to 16 months imprisonment in 2011 after claiming more than £30,000 in false mortgage payments.

 

4 Ex-Labour MP for Livingston Jim Devine was sentenced to 16 months in 2011 after submitting false invoices totalling £8,385.

 

3 Eric Illsley, former Labour MP for Barnsley Central, was jailed for a year in 2011 after pleading guilty to £14,000 of fraudulent expenses.

 

2 Labour minister John Stonehouse faced 18 charges of theft, forgery and conspiracy to commit insurance fraud in 1976. He served three years of his seven-year sentence.

 

1 Horatio Bottomley, an independent MP for Hackney South in 1918, was convicted of fraud in 1922 and sentenced to seven years in prison.

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Cabinet and Ministerial resignations [edit]

Jacqui Smith announced that she would step down as Home Secretary after the European elections, but would contest her seat at the next election.[122] Lost her seat at the subsequent general election.

Hazel Blears announced on 3 June that she would step down as Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government.[123]

Tony McNulty resigned from his position as Minister for Employment during the cabinet reshuffle on 5 June 2009.[124] Lost his seat at the subsequent general election.

Geoff Hoon left his position as Secretary of State for Transport during the cabinet reshuffle on 5 June 2009, in order for him to spend more time on European and international issues with him being considered a possible candidate as the next British member of the European Commission.[125] Did not stand at the 2010 election.

Kitty Ussher resigned as Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury on 17 June, after only 8 days in the position, following details of avoiding capital gains tax being published.[126] Did not stand at the 2010 election.

David Laws was the last to resign from the cabinet for expenses related issues, one year after the other cabinet resignations. A Liberal Democrat frontbencher appointed to the position of Chief Secretary to the Treasury after the 2010 general election, he resigned 16 days later when the Daily Telegraph reported that he claimed over £40,000 on his expenses in the form of second home costs, from 2004 to late 2009, during which time he had been renting rooms at properties owned by his long-term partner, James Lundie.[127]

Labour backbenchers [edit]

The Labour Party formed a three-person panel of its National Executive Committee (NEC) in order to investigate some of its MPs who were referred to it over expenses allegations, which quickly became known as the "Star Chamber" (a reference to the court of the same name employed by English monarchs to dispense summary justice in the 16th and 17th centuries).[128][129] Individual cases (in alphabetical order) include:

Ben Chapman announced on 21 May 2009 that he would stand down at the next election, while maintaining that he had done nothing wrong; he said he would resign because the story in the Daily Telegraph had been hurtful to his family, friends and local party members. He was the first Labour MP who announced he would stand down.[130]

David Chaytor announced that he would not stand for re-election,[131] and was also barred from standing for Labour at the next general election.[132] Charged with three alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting"),[133][134] on 3 December 2010 he pleaded guilty to claiming rent for a house he in fact owned, using a fake tenancy agreement with his daughter. He was sentenced on 7 January 2011 to an 18-month jail sentence.[135] His sentence may have been more lenient than the maximum seven years because of his guilty plea.[136]

Harry Cohen announced he would not stand for re-election. He said the strain caused by the criticism over his expenses, and the formal investigation into his claims, were the main factors behind his departure.[137] He was subsequently barred from receiving his MP's resettlement grant, after being censured for his claims on a second home.[138]

Jim Devine was deselected on 16 June following a disciplinary hearing by the Labour party "star chamber".[132][139] He has been charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[133][134] He was duly convicted of two charges of false accounting and on 31 March 2011 was sentenced to 16 months imprisonment[140][141]

Ian Gibson was also barred from representing Labour at the next general election and de-selected. He was said to be "deeply disappointed".[132] On 5 June, Gibson announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Norwich North constituency on 23 July 2009, which Labour went on to lose to the Conservatives.[142]

Eric Illsley on 8 February 2011, announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Barnsley Central constituency, after pleading guilty to charges of false accounting.[143]

Denis MacShane on 5 November 2012, announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Rotherham constituency, following a recommendation from the Standards and Privileges Committee that he be suspended for 12 months for submitting false expenses invoices.[144]

Anne Moffat on 22 January 2010, Moffat was deselected by her East Lothian constituency party, over her travel expenses.[145]

Margaret Moran decided not to contest the next election,[146] and has also been barred from standing for Labour at the next general election.[132] On 13 October 2010, the Telegraph reported that Moran would be prosecuted over her expenses.[147] In 2012, Moran was declared unfit to stand trial due her mental health, which was profoundly affected by the scandal.

Elliot Morley announced on 29 May that he would not stand for re-election,[148] and has also been barred from standing for Labour at the next general election by the NEC's "star chamber".[132] He has been charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[133][134]

Conservatives [edit]

On 14 May, Andrew MacKay, the Conservative MP for Bracknell, resigned as parliamentary aide to David Cameron over what he described as "unacceptable" expenses claims made by him. Subsequently he decided to stand down at the next Bracknell parliamentary election.[149] His wife, Julie Kirkbride who represents Bromsgrove, decided on 28 May 2009 that she too would not stand at the next general election.[150]

Douglas Hogg announced on 19 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[151]

Anthony Steen announced on 20 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[152]

Sir Peter Viggers announced on 20 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[153]

Husband and wife Conservative backbenchers Sir Nicholas and Lady Ann Winterton announced their intention to stand down at the next election.[154]

Christopher Fraser stated he would stand down to "care for his ill wife".[155]

Ian Taylor announced he would retire at the next general election although not because of the expenses issue (see link below). He had been claiming and had openly declared the maximum allowed for a second home allowance for a London home for four years between 2003 and 2008, even though his main residence was in Guildford—40 minutes from Westminister.[156]

Peers [edit]

Amir Bhatia, Baron Bhatia has been suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446

Anthony Clarke, Baron Clarke of Hampstead admitted that he “fiddled†his expenses to make up for not being paid a salary.[157]

Lord Hanningfield was charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[133][134] He stepped down from his frontbench role on learning of the charges on 5 February 2010.[158] On 26 May 2011, Lord Hanningfield was found guilty on six counts.

Swraj Paul, Baron Paul has been suspended from the House of Lords for four months and ordered to pay back £41,982

John Taylor, Baron Taylor of Warwick pleaded not guilty to six charges of false accounting, but was convicted at Southwark Crown Court on 25 January 2011.

Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation for alleged fraud for claiming at least £180,000 in expenses by designating an empty flat, and previously an allegedly non existent property as her main residence. She was suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and told to repay £125,349

 

lots of toe rags about.

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of course not.

 

same adage there are or was. (i suspect ) more bent MPS, Lords and Ladies as a % than benefit cheats. So to insure that we stop this evil practice we punish all the mps. an auditor to quibble over every expense claim. probing investigations into the personel lives and a ban on second jobs ect.

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^^

 

If you start quoting Ed Balls, one of the chief culprits for the mess that the UK economy is in, then you have effectively lost the argument.

 

The idiot is now suggesting that state retirement pensions should also be means-tested. He hasn't a clue.

 

Why are you lying?

 

The crash was caused by the banks. Not the labour party. Are you really so completely devoid of evidence to support your ideological war on the poor that you have to resort to lying? Pathetic!

 

The crash was global, not limited to the UK.

 

Oh, and how is quoting Ed Balls any different to quoting the tory party website? A hypocrite as well as a liar. :roll:

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^^

 

If you start quoting Ed Balls, one of the chief culprits for the mess that the UK economy is in, then you have effectively lost the argument.

 

The idiot is now suggesting that state retirement pensions should also be means-tested. He hasn't a clue.

 

Why are you lying?

 

The crash was caused by the banks. Not the labour party. Are you really so completely devoid of evidence to support your ideological war on the poor that you have to resort to lying? Pathetic!

 

The crash was global, not limited to the UK.

 

Oh, and how is quoting Ed Balls any different to quoting the tory party website? A hypocrite as well as a liar. :roll:

 

Well said sir :lik:

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