shetlandpeat Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 So so wrong Colin. I like the way you. Try to twist what I am saying. To be expected. However I do not think what you think I think. So wrong assumption. My thoughts ate on my experiences and how I see it. But! This cannot be up in the mix with more than 90 % of the population apparently not involved. As someone who still enjoys sport, I still feel that some additional regulation be in order. No doubt you will tell me I am wrong by using your own experiences. I look forward to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Your experiences with air weapons are like mine, largely irrelevant to the topic of this thread and, I'm not going to bore everyone with mine. I asked 2 simple questions. Are you, or are you not, going to answer them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 It is always a statisticians dream to know numbers of things and I have already explained the second question. Now then why do you feel that your experiences have little bearing on the subject when it is only past experiences that forge the future. Knowing facts and the numbers relating to them are needed to continue to monitor the subject.I enjoy stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 there is no reason not to keep an idea of how many weapons are in the country, is only a small part of what I see is the problem.Another disjointed, and rambling, post. My eyes are bleeding. I would like to point out the way you selectively quote there Colin, you deliberately quoted the last part out of context, that is very poor really, but, from past experience to be expected. Let me remind you as due to your hyphaema (I suggest you get glasses so you do not have to get too close to the monitor in future ) you have missed the point. To say, what is the point because folk who are deemed of a criminal nature or have intent will continue is only a small part of what I see is the problem. If you look at the instructions that come with this forum it suggests you .......snip........ if you miss bits out of a quote. To mix the two, as you have could mean one of two things, you want to make it apear that I said something I did not or you forgot the decent .....snip.... I will take the latter, as I do not think you could be so contrived. Still, I have answered your questions, and I do confirm that I would be very interested in the stats, as well as the need for a licence to purchase an air weapon, this would mean some sort of trace on associations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owre-weel Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 And yet another post turned into a personal argument by he who must have the last word. gafynandrew 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 crime is crime and will continue licensed or not. Licensing will cause people to fall foul of the rules forgetting to renew and subsequently costing police time collecting said un-licensed air weapons. The answer is simply to increase penalties for miss use dont criminilize lawfull use hit the criminals harder owre-weel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 there is no reason not to keep an idea of how many weapons are in the country, is only a small part of what I see is the problem.Another disjointed, and rambling, post. My eyes are bleeding. I would like to point out the way you selectively quote there Colin, you deliberately quoted the last part out of context, that is very poor really, but, from past experience to be expected. Let me remind you as due to your hyphaema (I suggest you get glasses so you do not have to get too close to the monitor in future ) you have missed the point. To say, what is the point because folk who are deemed of a criminal nature or have intent will continue is only a small part of what I see is the problem. If you look at the instructions that come with this forum it suggests you .......snip........ if you miss bits out of a quote. To mix the two, as you have could mean one of two things, you want to make it apear that I said something I did not or you forgot the decent .....snip.... I will take the latter, as I do not think you could be so contrived. Still, I have answered your questions, and I do confirm that I would be very interested in the stats, as well as the need for a licence to purchase an air weapon, this would mean some sort of trace on associations. Under the SNP proposals you will NOT have to produce a valid airgun certificate before buying a airgun.What their reasoning is I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I could understand it if crimes involving airguns in Scotland was a large and growing problem but this is simply not the case .The opposite is true .No I believe this is politically motivated the SNP want to change the law simply because they can.They want to create any difference and friction between Scotland and England that they can. There are already laws in place which covers any possible misuse of airguns.If you go back to the Mark Bonini case the gun he used to murder little Andrew Morton was not a normal airrifle it had been converted to be much more powerful and would require a licence under the existing laws .This could well cost the Scottish taxpayer £100 MILLION. Or more if they are forced to pay out compensation as well.Another concern is that the SNP are proposing that penalties for possessing a airgun without certificate should mirror that for firearms.That will mean 5 years mandatory jail sentence for possession of unlicensed airgun.I kid you not. gafynandrew 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 That will mean 5 years mandatory jail sentence for possession of unlicensed airgun.I kid you not.Robbie thats not true I have been out of criminal law for a while but I believe that the possesion must occur during the comission of a crime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Under the SNP proposals you will NOT have to produce a valid airgun certificate before buying a airgun.What their reasoning is I don't know. The reasoning is, imho, quite simple. 1st, they force you to register the fact that you own an air weapon so that they know who you are then; 2nd, when they decide to outlaw posession completely (and, if they get away with this one, they will), they will know exactly who to go to. Big knock on the door and, hand it over. I'm no politician but. I'm savvy enough to know that they ratchet the unacceptable up 1 notch at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Not producing a license on the purchase of an air weapon is folly. If this law is to be in place, and as you say, there is little you can do because it is only done because those in charge can do it, then the best has to be gotten from it. Reading some of the replies to the consultation, there is, as expected a mixed bag of replies, though, I have, so far found more against than in favour, but several have said if there is to be further regulation, as the ability to do so has been handed down by the Queen, then it must be measurable. Several were very good in giving plausible reasons to amend, this in turn could make the new Act difficult to put in place. That is a sensible approach, especially if what is mentioned here it to be taken as the true motives. Though the SNP has social tendencies and supports collective bargaining, when you have over 45% of the vote, it can be forgotten. Though I have seen the harm done by air weapons and have witnessed first hand them being used in a threatening manner in a public place, which in turn caused several Police Officers armed with their semi-automatic weapons to erupt from Lewisham Police Station thus having the possibility of an exchange, restrictions and regulations firstly have to be enforceable, and measured. I feel that there should be more done to limit uses of air weapons and their distribution, in the same way as I think local authorities should license paper shops who employ youngsters to deliver papers on bikes that are not road legal.It should be about safety, and to make sure, as far as reasonably practical, it can be put in practice. If you take time to watch and follow Acts as they are evolved, generally, those instigating the Act will say put in 10 measures they want, however, secretly, there may be 5 they will be happy with. The rest are used to barter with, and as they are reduced, the comment is, well we are listening and amending, if it say, stops at 7, they may remove the 2 that could prove the most controversial or costly and again, tell you how good they are again, then the majority will say, they are not so bad, at least they listen and vote them in again. If you want finer details, say costings and time taken by Civil Servants or Officers, you just need to ask, however, you should only ask questions you already know the answer to, to some degree, this than enables you to follow that lead with the real issue an you have them in a place they will find it difficult to back track without observation. Edited February 28, 2014 by shetlandpeat redrobbie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 That will mean 5 years mandatory jail sentence for possession of unlicensed airgun.I kid you not.Robbie thats not true I have been out of criminal law for a while but I believe that the possesion must occur during the comission of a crime Yes it is true here is a link. http://www.lawtonslaw.co.uk/gun-knife-crime-laws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) That will mean 5 years mandatory jail sentence for possession of unlicensed airgun.I kid you not.Robbie thats not true I have been out of criminal law for a while but I believe that the possesion must occur during the comission of a crime Another link. http://www.merseyside.police.uk/protecting-you/gun-crime.aspx i think folks had better start checking their sheds,cupboards and lofts for those long forgotten airguns otherwise they could well be spending a long time away from home. Edited February 28, 2014 by redrobbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 An interesting tale .http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9086833/Widow-faces-jail-for-possession-of-late-husbands-illegal-pistol-after-it-was-stolen-during-burglary.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Under the SNP proposals you will NOT have to produce a valid airgun certificate before buying a airgun.What their reasoning is I don't know. The reasoning is, imho, quite simple. 1st, they force you to register the fact that you own an air weapon so that they know who you are then; 2nd, when they decide to outlaw posession completely (and, if they get away with this one, they will), they will know exactly who to go to. Big knock on the door and, hand it over. I'm no politician but. I'm savvy enough to know that they ratchet the unacceptable up 1 notch at a time. The thing is these new laws will only apply in Scotland.There is nothing to stop the neds crossing the border and buying as many airguns as he likes in England and bringing them back home to sell for a handsome profit .Or he can just phone a mate in England and get him to post it up to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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