Ghostrider Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Would you then need a license to purchase an airgun, as you do with other firearms. I wonder how else you think you can vet folk who want to buy a firearm. Perhaps leave it up to the shop keeper or internet to vet. .....and vetting achives what, exactly? Apart from providing more revenue for Big Brother's coffers. Some of the alleged perpretrators of this UK's highest death toll "massacres" allegedly held the weapons and ammo they are said to have used fully legally. If all true, that equates to a very big fail for so called "vetting". Bottom line, those most in need of being vetted out will either spin a web of decit and lies to wangle their way through the vetting system, or simply ignore it and acquire any weapon they feel inclined to via the black market, same as everything else. While the "model citizen" who always does exactly what they're told and swallows all the bull, has to jump through hoops and pay through the nose just to prove they aren't a psychopathic crackpot. gafynandrew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Under the SNP's proposal's you will NOT be required to produce a valid air gun licence when you buy a air gun..Which in my mind defeat's the whole procedure.They are also proposing that if you already hold a shotgun certificate then you can get a air gun certificate automatically .As it will be much harder to get a air gun certificate under the SNP's proposals than a SGC the temptation will be for folks to go for the SGC . Edited February 8, 2014 by redrobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 What is the fuss then, if what ever you do, folk will beat. I would worry about stuff that is really changing peoples lives for the worst, like poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) ^ A broadside of buckshot from a 12 bore is going to be a far more life changing event that an air gun pellet is the majority of cases. There would be no fuss if the Government would stop interfering when it does no good, or actually makes the situation worse, then try and con everyone with their spin and bull that their way will be "safer", when nobody who has taken the time to understand what they are up to agrees with them. Edited February 8, 2014 by Ghostrider gafynandrew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 I would ask how many have suffered gunshot wounds against those who suffer hunger, deprivation, discrimination, mental illness, suicide, child abuse, rape, assault and so on. To be really honest, these things need fixing and campaigning for rather than trying to rubbish a whole institution on one very small piece of legislation. I do agree however, there needs to be better control on who owns these low power firearms, especially as they look, and feel like their powder driven originals. Alas, not seen many children with 12 bore shotguns in my time, plenty of air propelled firearms though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Here is a interesting article that appeared in last year in the Scotsman newspaper.The comment section is well worth a read as well. http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/macaskill-ignored-public-opinion-on-gun-licences-1-3013293 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I would ask how many have suffered gunshot wounds against those who suffer hunger, deprivation, discrimination, mental illness, suicide, child abuse, rape, assault and so on. To be really honest, these things need fixing and campaigning for rather than trying to rubbish a whole institution on one very small piece of legislation. I do agree however, there needs to be better control on who owns these low power firearms, especially as they look, and feel like their powder driven originals. Alas, not seen many children with 12 bore shotguns in my time, plenty of air propelled firearms though.Under the SNP proposals it will be illegal for anyone under 18 to own a low powered air gun [under 12ft/lb power].But it will be quite legal for under 18's to get a shotgun licence or a firearms. certificate.So we are going to have the ludicrous situation were a 16 year old can not get a certificate for a low powered air gun but he can get one for a very high powered one or a shotgun or a ,22lr rifle . Edited February 9, 2014 by redrobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Background checks before the aigun is handed over the counter, face to face sales only. As it is now if you're buying an airgun from an RFD you have to collect it from him/her in person but the laws regarding second-hand sales are a lot more relaxed. I could buy one off Gunstar right now and probably have it here on Tuesday via the Royal Mail/courier service with NO checks on any criminal activity on my part.It is not well known that the VCR act banning direct internet sales of new air guns only applies to UK based companies due to EU rules it is quite legal to buy direct from another EU country direct to your door of course the air gun must conform to UK power limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Under the SNP proposals it will be illegal for anyone under 18 to own a low powered air gun [under 12ft/lb power].But it will be quite legal for under 18's to get a shotgun licence or a firearms. certificate.So we are going to have the ludicrous situation were a 16 year old can not get a certificate for a low powered air gun but he can get one for a very high powered one or a shotgun or a ,22lr rifle . Tell me Robbie, how would the under 18 year old obtain a license for a powder device. Firearm Certificates are generally granted for rifles required for sports / vermin or target shooting.Component parts of Section 1 firearms also require a Firearm Certificate, as do accessories, such as sound moderators.The Firearm Certificate will specify the type and calibre of each firearm (and amount of corresponding ammunition, not applicable to air weapon ammunition) that may be possessed.More dangerous firearms, classified as ‘prohibited weapons’ are covered by Section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968, and generally require authority from the Scottish Government. Applicants must have a 'Good Reason' for all firearms they may wish to possess. This may be evidenced by having authority to shoot over land, or membership of a Target Shooting Club. In respect of renewals, 'Good Reason' will be shown through regular use of all firearms possessed.These are from the Scottish Police web pages. At the moment, it seems it is not that easy for a 16 year old to obtain a license as you implied with your comparison. More of a SNP oppositional stance me thinks is the crux of your campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuckleJoannie Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 According to this website http://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/features/ask_the_experts_2_8808/firearms_law_1_1529690 SHOTGUNSUnder 15 - You can borrow a shotgun, but only if you are accompanied by someone over the age of 21.15-17 - You can have a shotgun licence and receive a shotgun as a gift or borrow one (subject to correct supervision).18 - You can buy a shotgunFIREARMS14 - You may be granted a firearms certificate17 - You may borrow a firearm (from someone over 18)18 - You can buy a firearm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobbie Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12840557 .According to BBC between 2008 and 2010 7071 shotgun licences were issued to under 18,s in the UK. Edited February 9, 2014 by redrobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Applicants must have a 'Good Reason' for all firearms they may wish to possess. This may be evidenced by having authority to shoot over land, or membership of a Target Shooting Club. In respect of renewals, 'Good Reason' will be shown through regular use of all firearms possessed. Firearm Certificates are generally granted for rifles required for sports / vermin or target shooting.Component parts of Section 1 firearms also require a Firearm Certificate, as do accessories, such as sound moderators.The Firearm Certificate will specify the type and calibre of each firearm (and amount of corresponding ammunition, not applicable to air weapon ammunition) that may be possessed.More dangerous firearms, classified as ‘prohibited weapons’ are covered by Section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968, and generally require authority from the Scottish Government. These are from the Scottish Police web pages. At the moment, it seems it is not that easy for a 16 year old to obtain a license as you implied with your comparison. More of a SNP oppositional stance me thinks is the crux of your campaign. Pete, you are talking about a firearms certificate. To get a firearm, you are correct that you must show good reason. To get a shotgun is just a matter of filling out a form. Firearms CertificatesWith the following exceptions, a Firearm Certificate must be held for any 'Firearm' or ammunition for such a weapon. Except:Shot guns which may be held on a Shot Gun Certificate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 High powered air guns are Fire Arms, low power air guns are not shotguns. If you are going to win a debate, of which, this future legislation is, you must have compromises you are willing to accept. That is, the SGov will say want 5 things in they really want, but, they put in 10. They then reduce them, showing that they are compromising, which can be seen as good. The same with the argument against. It seems, no control is the desired way, however, this will probably not be the case, so, you have to look at what is practical, and argue that. Now, if you stick to no control, you could be seen as the person who does not really care about the safety of who ever they chose to mention. So far, this seems just to be about an anti-SNP thing, which is fine and well, but label it as such. It ain't gonna swing the vote, really. There are stats to show that folk get hurt, they need to be reduced, you cannot however prove that they are going down now because of any influence apart from coincidence. The emotive side is, that air powered guns are not shotguns, they then can only be firearms. Add to the mix that they can also be handguns if their power is low enough, or licensed handguns if they exceed a power rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 High powered air guns are Fire Arms Not true and you should know it. High powered air guns are, according to various Government web sites, described as Air Weapons and are NOT described as firearms. A Firearms Certificate is only required if the muzzle velocity exceds 12fps for an Air Rifle (other controls exist for different types of air weapon). This would appear to limit the effective range/penetration of those weapons that are generally available to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 High powered air guns are Fire Arms Not true and you should know it. High powered air guns are, according to various Government web sites, described as Air Weapons and are NOT described as firearms. A Firearms Certificate is only required if the muzzle velocity exceds 12fps for an Air Rifle So, if they are not, why do you need a firearms certificate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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