What did Alistair Carmichael (Orkney & Shetland), Vote?

[Urabug]

Perhaps a 'Gay rehabilitation' centre could be set up on Papa Stour to 'cure' gay fowk......

 

 

 

No chance Papa Stour is just no big enough to hold them all !!

[owre-weel]

How far will the Law keep compromising and changing? How much do we have to compromise to be PC to save your career?

 

Certain faiths allow men to be married to 4 women at the same time, with our dual court system already in place, are we going to get other faiths demanding the right that a man can demand to be married to 4 other men?

 

I know female atheists that say it is not right for men to marry men

 

I know of ex gays that have had a change of heart and found faith in a loving saviour and found a female partner and had children of their own in that marriage.

 

I do not believe David Cameron PM when he says people working in their professions will not be forced against own will to compromise or be sacked, European Union is already pushing these Laws through, PM is towing the EU line.

 

I do not think it is right that say a teacher for example on Papa Stour is allowed to teach Gay Marriage is OK Good even. Just supposing all the kids accepted the teachers words and just decided to have relationships with male and males, females with females This does not encourage future generations, we just end up after a while with an Island full of ?? You tell me? And if that teacher did not tow the line then they could be sacked. Is this progress? Is this evolution?

 

I think the human body/mind/brain/spirit is much more amazing than to end up marrying its own gender

 

I think the Prime Minister is a light weight .and anyone who follows his delusion cant be that intelligent for following this madness.

 

This new law trying to get through does not make this Kingdom Great. We are making this Kingdom a joke.

 

What happens when we get a future King who wants to marry a man? Or a future Queen wants to marry a woman?

 

Is this going to put the Great back into Great Britain? or are we all going to end up in Little Britain?

 

I'm sorry, but I've never read so much rubbish in a long time. God help your new neighbours if they happen to be gay

 

Any couple, heterosexual or homosexual have the right to live a full and fulfilling happy life and I believe that as a Christian.

 

People don't get up one morning and think "I think I might be gay from now on". It's not a choice, it's who they are and no one has any right to judge them or treat them any differently then heterosexuals.

 

Schools thankfully now teach difference and acceptance, none of which will turn someone gay, but will hopefully teach children to accept all as equals, removing these antiquated views held and spouted by a minority.

 

What makes Britain great is acceptance that we are all different and that everyone has a right to lead a life free from fear of being different.

 

If any of my family turned out to be gay, they would get my full support and I would accept them as I would anyone else... And be glad to attend their wedding if they decided to marry. This is what I believe any decent person would do.

[paulb]

well said

[papastour]

Alistair has had to tow the line of the Gov as he is a whip. He too is punished if he does not tow the party line.Difference being if a minister tows the line of the Holy Bible and reads out loud some scriptures, he can get a £1000 fine and a night in jail as happened in Glasgow eg http://www.christianstogether.net/Articles/191402/Christians_Together_in/Christian_Life/Current_News/American_evangelist_jailed.aspx

 

 

Why should anyone have to go against their inner beliefs and face the sack if the do not comply?

 

I disagree with some readers views that You are Born Gay.

r Grady Mcmurtry puts it like this taken from his Creation World View Ministris Site

 

Homosexuality

 

It has become politically correct to accept the argument that homosexuality is an acquired trait rather than a learned behavior. Any other view is condemned as intolerant, uncompassionate and even homophobic. This has placed pressure on the Church to fall in line with recent changes in current thinking. Some, point to scientific evidence as the compelling reason for changing our ideas and theology in the Church. Just how compelling is the evidence that gays are born that way?

 

Research on Homosexuality

 

In the past 10 years we have seen a few scientific studies which have tried to prove that homosexuality is genetically inherited. All of the studies: the 1991 Simon Le Vay gay brain studies; the gay twin study of Bailey and Pillard; the study by Dean Hamer, who postulated the presence of a possible gene which could influence the expression of homosexuality; as well as later studies through which the genes of fruit flies were genetically engineered, are riddled with scientific inconsistencies, lack of control groups and even gross errors.

 

Indeed, upon peer review these studies have now been rejected by the medical community. In the case of the gay brain study for instance, it was found that the area in the brain which Le Vay thought influenced the crouching-mounting behavior in male rats, was actually above and not within the area that Le Vay examined.

 

As Dr. Ruth Hubbard, Professor emeritus of Biology at Harvard stated; Sexual attraction depends on personal experience and cultural values and that desire is too complex, varied and interesting to be reduced to genes.

 

If anything can be genetically inherited, such as hemophilia, it can be expected to happen at a certain rate. With homosexuality we find, however, that the prevalence within a community varies enormously depending on the kinds of social control and acceptance that prevail in that community.

 

Since genetics is not the cause, what is? There is ample evidence to confirm that learning experiences (e.g.. seduction, public education, molestation and experimentation) lead young people down the path to homosexual behavior. The homosexual lifestyle is sterile. Therefore, it follows that homosexuals must of necessity, through seduction and public education, recruit their next generation.

 

Homosexuality is not an alternative lifestyle, it is an unnatural lifestyle. This has extremely serious implications for society as a whole and destroys the argument that gay behavior is private and had no effect on others. It would do great harm if the Church, by giving theological approval to homosexuality, becomes part of the problem of expanding this perversion instead of helping people bound by it.

 

According to the Chicago Study of 1994 (*), which is generally looked upon as the best study on sexual behavior in America and the first truly scientific survey taken; the famous Kinsey studies (which claimed that 10% of any population are gay) were deeply flawed. Although Alfred Kinsey was a biologist by training (he was an expert on the gall wasp) he compromised his research, used data from illegal sexual experimentation on children and was unethical and deceptive in omitting data injurious to his own hypotheses. Kinsey concluded the following: that bisexuality is the normal expression of human sexuality; that sexual contact with adults would be normal for children growing up in a less inhibited society; and that promiscuity and diversity of sexual expression correlate with sexual health.

 

Now, if these are Kinsey's conclusions and science doesn't take him seriously any more, why should the Church bother to perpetuate his flawed conclusions? There are a lot fewer homosexuals in America than the oft-repeated 1 in 10. Only 2.7% of men and 1.3% of women report that they had homosexual sex in the past year (* see above).

 

There are Dangers in Accepting a Genetic Origin for Homosexuality.

 

1. The argument implies that homosexuals have abnormal genes and are either defective or diseased. This is discriminatory and derogatory.

 

2. If genes are the cause of homosexuality, and abortion on demand is legalized, prenatal testing may influence parents to abort babies likely to carry homosexual genes. Indeed, the gay lobby in the USA has already expressed fears about this.

 

3. Genetic research discoveries are unlikely to stop. What if pedophile genes are found? Would the Church reconsider its ordination policies in the light of such new discoveries?

 

4. If homosexuality were genetic in origin it would mean that the condition is unchangeable.

 

There are Theological Pitfalls in Justifying Homosexuality as well.

 

It is a great overstatement to say that the Church is divided on the homosexual issue. Christians are clear on the fact that homosexuality is wrong. Those seeking to give theological justification to homosexuality and those few churches who have compromised their theology in it's favor, are a minuscule, but very vocal, faction of the Church.

 

1. The inhospitality theory used to explain the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is stretching the obvious meaning of Scripture. To say that the crime was actually the intention to gang rape innocent passers-by and not the homosexual act is surely nitpicking. Homosexual gang rape is arguably the logical progression of the effects of lax attitudes towards the perversion.

 

2. Condemnation of homosexuality in Levticus is clear and backed up by other passages outside of the Levitical code. Why would the Church wait until the end of the 20th Century to change the accepted meaning of Gods laws and roles concerning sexuality? One may surmise that pressure from the World has shaken our theological foundation.

 

3. Today it is serial monogamy which is being defined by its proponents as monogamous sexual relationships. The homosexual psyche drives its adherents toward constant affairs and cruising which happen outside the relationship. A good example is what happened to the Rt. Rev. John Spong, Episcopalian (Anglican) Bishop of Newark, New Jersey. In Bishop Spong's book Living in Sin? he claims to base his views on new medical insights, but has failed to consider evidence from psychology or the total lack of evidence from genetics. Even the sympathetic Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement concluded charitably that Spong was somewhat out of his depth.

 

On December 16, 1989, Bishop Spong ordained Robert Williams as a priest, a man openly living with his gay lover James Skelly, who also took part in the service. The hopes of Bishop Spong that Mr. Williams would be a model of holiness, fidelity and monogamy were soon dashed. Williams was put in charge of a special ministry in the lesbian and gay community and immediately claimed that monogamy was as crazy an idea as celibacy.

 

4. In I Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:9-10: the two Greek words used are malakoi and arsenokoitai. In I Timothy only arsenokoitai appears. As Rev. Dr. John Stott points out arsenokoitai as used by the Greeks was used to refer to men who take the active role in homosexual activity. The word refers to mainstream homosexual activity. Again, Dr. Stott explains that malakoi is a Greek slang term for males, not necessarily boys, who took the passive role in sexual intercourse. It refers to an effeminate sexually active homosexual.

 

In April 1996, the United Methodist Church in the United States, upheld their practice of declaring homosexuality incompatible with Christian teaching. The Council of Bishops said that they were committed to upholding Church law by banning the ordination of gays and declaring that gay practices violate Biblical teaching. The Mexican and Latin American Methodists affirmed the decision taken by the United Methodist Church in the United States.

 

Conclusion

 

Those who plead for tolerance and acceptance for the homosexuals by accepting their behavior as Biblically justified are uncaring about these people who so desperately need our help. True love and compassion would offer the Biblical cure for sin. We, including homosexuals, are born with inherent sin but, through God's love we are redeemed and changed through our Lord Jesus Christ. Sex is a wonderful gift of God and not sinful when used according to the plan God has so clearly laid out in His Word.

 

The Church consists of redeemed heterosexuals and homosexuals, neither is worse than the other, but both must forsake their sinful and immoral ways.

 

Let us hold out the gospel hope to all: " ...fornicators, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals ... such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of God." (I Corinthians 6:9,11) Heterosexual sinners and homosexual sinners; Jesus' power can save them and change them.

 

Sources:

1. Doctors For Life special report: Is Homosexuality Genetic?

 

2. W. Byne and B. Parsons Human sexual orientation: the biological theories reappraised. Arch. Gen. (Psychiatry 1993:50; 228-239).

 

3. Laumann, R. Michael, S. Michaels et. al. The Social Organisation of Sexuality, 1994.

 

4. Stephen Green The Sexual Dead-End, BPCC Wheatons Ltd., Exeter, 1992.

[zebedee]

Papastour, you can choose to believe anything you wish.

 

It doesn't make you right.

 

It doesn't make you better.

 

No amount of Christian propaganda will change what I think about this. And I think you are wrong. As does our (not your) MP.

 

And we are just as entitled as you to hold our beliefs.

 

So shout it from the rooftops. If Alastair Carmichael was worried about you telling everyone I'm sure he would have responded to you by now.

[unlinkedstudent]

With respect, Papastour, there's only been so much medical research and given that even leading neurologists don't fully understand how all of the brain works and why, what makes the research results you posted any different? You can only do so much research and much of medical science, especially social sciences, is based purely on someone else's ideas with no hard factual evidence.

 

So just because an MRI scan shows one part of the brain working when X activity is carried out doesn't mean to say it will be the same in another person. It takes a human to interpret what such an MRI image means and they aren't always right.

 

You'd need more genetic research and you'd have to undertake a far broader study.

 

Besides, there's also the argument that all of our memories come from the same starting point and therefore it was Adam and Eve who carried the gay genes and our memories/thoughts/sexual preferences originate from them.

 

Anyway, what about the Human Rights Act, a right to family life? A family doesn't always equate to 2.4 children. If Ghostie and I want a civil partnership as opposed to a marriage we should bloody well be allowed to have one and likewise, if 10 women want to have a union with each other, they should be allowed to do so. An out-of-date, out-of-touch with reality book from centuries ago has no place in the law.

 

Should we ban shellfish simply because people died after it been transported from the sea across a hot desert?

 

Great Britain? Don't make me laugh. We're having our freedoms eroded by the minute and voting against gay marriage and disallowing civil partnerships for opposite sex couples is yet another example of how behind with people's rights this nation really is.

[Scorrie]

Alistair has had to tow the line of the Gov as he is a whip. He too is punished if he does not tow the party line.Difference being if a minister tows the line of the Holy Bible and reads out loud some scriptures, he can get a £1000 fine and a night in jail as happened in Glasgow eg http://www.christianstogether.net/Articles/191402/Christians_Together_in/Christian_Life/Current_News/American_evangelist_jailed.aspx

 

 

Why should anyone have to go against their inner beliefs and face the sack if the do not comply?

 

I disagree with some readers views that You are Born Gay.

r Grady Mcmurtry puts it like this taken from his Creation World View Ministris Site

 

Homosexuality

 

It has become politically correct to accept the argument that homosexuality is an acquired trait rather than a learned behavior. Any other view is condemned as intolerant, uncompassionate and even homophobic. This has placed pressure on the Church to fall in line with recent changes in current thinking. Some, point to scientific evidence as the compelling reason for changing our ideas and theology in the Church. Just how compelling is the evidence that gays are born that way?

 

Research on Homosexuality

 

In the past 10 years we have seen a few scientific studies which have tried to prove that homosexuality is genetically inherited. All of the studies: the 1991 Simon Le Vay gay brain studies; the gay twin study of Bailey and Pillard; the study by Dean Hamer, who postulated the presence of a possible gene which could influence the expression of homosexuality; as well as later studies through which the genes of fruit flies were genetically engineered, are riddled with scientific inconsistencies, lack of control groups and even gross errors.

 

Indeed, upon peer review these studies have now been rejected by the medical community. In the case of the gay brain study for instance, it was found that the area in the brain which Le Vay thought influenced the crouching-mounting behavior in male rats, was actually above and not within the area that Le Vay examined.

 

As Dr. Ruth Hubbard, Professor emeritus of Biology at Harvard stated; Sexual attraction depends on personal experience and cultural values and that desire is too complex, varied and interesting to be reduced to genes.

 

If anything can be genetically inherited, such as hemophilia, it can be expected to happen at a certain rate. With homosexuality we find, however, that the prevalence within a community varies enormously depending on the kinds of social control and acceptance that prevail in that community.

 

Since genetics is not the cause, what is? There is ample evidence to confirm that learning experiences (e.g.. seduction, public education, molestation and experimentation) lead young people down the path to homosexual behavior. The homosexual lifestyle is sterile. Therefore, it follows that homosexuals must of necessity, through seduction and public education, recruit their next generation.

 

Homosexuality is not an alternative lifestyle, it is an unnatural lifestyle. This has extremely serious implications for society as a whole and destroys the argument that gay behavior is private and had no effect on others. It would do great harm if the Church, by giving theological approval to homosexuality, becomes part of the problem of expanding this perversion instead of helping people bound by it.

 

According to the Chicago Study of 1994 (*), which is generally looked upon as the best study on sexual behavior in America and the first truly scientific survey taken; the famous Kinsey studies (which claimed that 10% of any population are gay) were deeply flawed. Although Alfred Kinsey was a biologist by training (he was an expert on the gall wasp) he compromised his research, used data from illegal sexual experimentation on children and was unethical and deceptive in omitting data injurious to his own hypotheses. Kinsey concluded the following: that bisexuality is the normal expression of human sexuality; that sexual contact with adults would be normal for children growing up in a less inhibited society; and that promiscuity and diversity of sexual expression correlate with sexual health.

 

Now, if these are Kinsey's conclusions and science doesn't take him seriously any more, why should the Church bother to perpetuate his flawed conclusions? There are a lot fewer homosexuals in America than the oft-repeated 1 in 10. Only 2.7% of men and 1.3% of women report that they had homosexual sex in the past year (* see above).

 

There are Dangers in Accepting a Genetic Origin for Homosexuality.

 

1. The argument implies that homosexuals have abnormal genes and are either defective or diseased. This is discriminatory and derogatory.

 

2. If genes are the cause of homosexuality, and abortion on demand is legalized, prenatal testing may influence parents to abort babies likely to carry homosexual genes. Indeed, the gay lobby in the USA has already expressed fears about this.

 

3. Genetic research discoveries are unlikely to stop. What if pedophile genes are found? Would the Church reconsider its ordination policies in the light of such new discoveries?

 

4. If homosexuality were genetic in origin it would mean that the condition is unchangeable.

 

There are Theological Pitfalls in Justifying Homosexuality as well.

 

It is a great overstatement to say that the Church is divided on the homosexual issue. Christians are clear on the fact that homosexuality is wrong. Those seeking to give theological justification to homosexuality and those few churches who have compromised their theology in it's favor, are a minuscule, but very vocal, faction of the Church.

 

1. The inhospitality theory used to explain the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is stretching the obvious meaning of Scripture. To say that the crime was actually the intention to gang rape innocent passers-by and not the homosexual act is surely nitpicking. Homosexual gang rape is arguably the logical progression of the effects of lax attitudes towards the perversion.

 

2. Condemnation of homosexuality in Levticus is clear and backed up by other passages outside of the Levitical code. Why would the Church wait until the end of the 20th Century to change the accepted meaning of Gods laws and roles concerning sexuality? One may surmise that pressure from the World has shaken our theological foundation.

 

3. Today it is serial monogamy which is being defined by its proponents as monogamous sexual relationships. The homosexual psyche drives its adherents toward constant affairs and cruising which happen outside the relationship. A good example is what happened to the Rt. Rev. John Spong, Episcopalian (Anglican) Bishop of Newark, New Jersey. In Bishop Spong's book Living in Sin? he claims to base his views on new medical insights, but has failed to consider evidence from psychology or the total lack of evidence from genetics. Even the sympathetic Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement concluded charitably that Spong was somewhat out of his depth.

 

On December 16, 1989, Bishop Spong ordained Robert Williams as a priest, a man openly living with his gay lover James Skelly, who also took part in the service. The hopes of Bishop Spong that Mr. Williams would be a model of holiness, fidelity and monogamy were soon dashed. Williams was put in charge of a special ministry in the lesbian and gay community and immediately claimed that monogamy was as crazy an idea as celibacy.

 

4. In I Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:9-10: the two Greek words used are malakoi and arsenokoitai. In I Timothy only arsenokoitai appears. As Rev. Dr. John Stott points out arsenokoitai as used by the Greeks was used to refer to men who take the active role in homosexual activity. The word refers to mainstream homosexual activity. Again, Dr. Stott explains that malakoi is a Greek slang term for males, not necessarily boys, who took the passive role in sexual intercourse. It refers to an effeminate sexually active homosexual.

 

In April 1996, the United Methodist Church in the United States, upheld their practice of declaring homosexuality incompatible with Christian teaching. The Council of Bishops said that they were committed to upholding Church law by banning the ordination of gays and declaring that gay practices violate Biblical teaching. The Mexican and Latin American Methodists affirmed the decision taken by the United Methodist Church in the United States.

 

Conclusion

 

Those who plead for tolerance and acceptance for the homosexuals by accepting their behavior as Biblically justified are uncaring about these people who so desperately need our help. True love and compassion would offer the Biblical cure for sin. We, including homosexuals, are born with inherent sin but, through God's love we are redeemed and changed through our Lord Jesus Christ. Sex is a wonderful gift of God and not sinful when used according to the plan God has so clearly laid out in His Word.

 

The Church consists of redeemed heterosexuals and homosexuals, neither is worse than the other, but both must forsake their sinful and immoral ways.

 

Let us hold out the gospel hope to all: " ...fornicators, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals ... such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of God." (I Corinthians 6:9,11) Heterosexual sinners and homosexual sinners; Jesus' power can save them and change them.

 

Sources:

1. Doctors For Life special report: Is Homosexuality Genetic?

 

2. W. Byne and B. Parsons Human sexual orientation: the biological theories reappraised. Arch. Gen. (Psychiatry 1993:50; 228-239).

 

3. Laumann, R. Michael, S. Michaels et. al. The Social Organisation of Sexuality, 1994.

 

4. Stephen Green The Sexual Dead-End, BPCC Wheatons Ltd., Exeter, 1992.

 

Pish.

[MJ]

It would appear Alistair Carmichael (Orkney & Shetland), based on the report in the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/feb/05/gay-marriage-gay-rights

 

Our MP in LONDON voted FOR GAY MARRIAGE,HETRO-SEXUAL, Bi-SEXUAL, TRANSEXUAL MARRIAGE.

 

I know, it makes me so proud to have him as our representative, now if only they'd make it harder to get married. It seems all to easy, I look at heterosexual acquaintances who seem think they make and break their lifetime promise 3 or more times.

[groilick]

If da SNP win da independence vote we'll aa be buggered!

[righter]

papastour,why should we hold our views up to you "yardstick"...i could not care less what the bible says about homosexuality.

 

It is an archaic book written for/by bronze age farmers and shepherds.

 

most of it is contradictory,and flawed,and frankly,not useful. Why would anyone use a piece of literature written so long ago,as a means to conduct their life? it is of no more use to me than the " Epic of Gilgamesh"...and thats even older.

 

Any bits that are of any use,in my opinion,such as the words of jesus,on love,turn the other cheek,love thy neighbour etc are of use because the make sense to me...and those sentiments were around for many years before jesus. See "the golden rule" for example.

 

As to your scientific research,i have not the time or energy to refute it,suffice to say,what does it matter "why" someone is gay...again,i don`t care,except that you feel you can use science as a stick to beat gay people.

 

What sort of god is it that gives someone their nature...but does not allow them to express it...a malevolent,torturing god,i would say.

 

if you are quoting Leviticus,what about... "nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together." Are you currently wearing a wool jumper,on top of a cotton tee shirt? ludicrous isn`t it...so you don`t follow that rule. (I`m guessing,you may be a very strict christian)

 

What about ...the admonishment for women to dress modestly...."not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments." As someone who only buys second hand clothing,i regard most peoples clothes as "costly garments"...are you checking for this,including hair styles,in your church? (if you attend one)

 

Don`t forget,"You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard." so men,need their hairstyles checking too.

 

of course there is also the oft quoted one on shellfish...do you avoid it?

 

I say things not to ridicule,but so that you cannot cherry pick the bits of the bible that you agree with,and indeed think we should too.

 

Many people choose to run their lives not according to the bible,some are good,and some are bad...but then that goes for christians too,some are good and some are bad.

 

you may believe what you want to,but you cannot come into the world,which mostly is not christian,and ask us to follow your rules or beliefs.

[Fatal Paper Cut]

Personally, I object to being morally lectured to by any church which has consistently been against education, women's rights, women's reproductive rights, women priests and bishops, contraception, abortion and homosexuals and their right to marry - and yet is made up almost entirely of celibate men and women leading a wholly unnatural lifestyle and with the temerity to assign themselves title like Holy Father, Father, Mother Superior, Sister and Brother - and then assume they have the right to tell the rest of us what we can and cannot do in our own homes and in our bedrooms and who can marry whom. Oh, and harbour quite a lot of child-abusers and then cover it up.

 

Homosexuality is is a state of being. NOT a choice. Christianity is a choice. Since when does what you choose to believe supersede what someone else actually is?

 

"Why should anyone have to go against their inner beliefs and face the sack if the do not comply?"

 

Quick question - would you be saying that if the person's inner belief was that black people are of less worth than white people? Because that's exactly the same amount of stupid. And ignorant. Yes, you're ignorant. Whatever happened to judge not, lest ye be judged and all that? I thought Jesus loved everybody equally? Unless they take it up the backside, apparently. Which is ironic really, because that's exactly where people like you have your heads firmly lodged.

 

And people wonder why church attendance is falling across the board? Papa Stour's population is probably shrinking for the same reason.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

I find it quite absurd that any same sex couples would want there partnership blessed and recognized by a religion that would see them burn in hell for eternity.

 

And if Alistair carbuncle is reading this he must be thinking

 

" All I did was vote for gay marriage, I didn't expect the spanish inquisition!"

 

Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!

 

 

P.S.

 

He's not the messiah, he's the only lib dem in the village......people?

[righter]

well not all churches condemn homosexuality....and you can have a civil marriage in a registry office.

[Fatal Paper Cut]

I find it quite absurd that any same sex couples would want there partnership blessed and recognized by a religion that would see them burn in hell for eternity.

 

 

Regardless of whether they want a religious ceremony or not, they should be able to marry without it being seen and treated separately like a civil partnership. Equally, heterosexuals should be able to have a Civil Partnership rather than marriage if they so wish. I find it absurd that religions that are supposed to preach peace, tolerance and acceptance only preach peace, tolerance and acceptance to a point.

[fusion]

Personally, I object to being morally lectured to by any church which has consistently been against education, women's rights, women's reproductive rights, women priests and bishops, contraception, abortion and homosexuals and their right to marry - and yet is made up almost entirely of celibate men and women leading a wholly unnatural lifestyle and with the temerity to assign themselves title like Holy Father, Father, Mother Superior, Sister and Brother - and then assume they have the right to tell the rest of us what we can and cannot do in our own homes and in our bedrooms and who can marry whom. Oh, and harbour quite a lot of child-abusers and then cover it up.

 

Homosexuality is is a state of being. NOT a choice. Christianity is a choice. Since when does what you choose to believe supersede what someone else actually is?

 

"Why should anyone have to go against their inner beliefs and face the sack if the do not comply?"

 

Quick question - would you be saying that if the person's inner belief was that black people are of less worth than white people? Because that's exactly the same amount of stupid. And ignorant. Yes, you're ignorant. Whatever happened to judge not, lest ye be judged and all that? I thought Jesus loved everybody equally? Unless they take it up the backside, apparently. Which is ironic really, because that's exactly where people like you have your heads firmly lodged.

 

And people wonder why church attendance is falling across the board? Papa Stour's population is probably shrinking for the same reason.

 

here here.

 

I cant beleive I've read such vile comments from a Christian???

shame on them. I'm sure if jesus was here he wouldnt think much of such hatret coming from one of his followers.