Sudden Stop Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 Seaflech - Welcome to the debate. It was this thread that pulled me into the forum too and there are some very intelligent arguments on all sides and I hope some councillors are reading! Compounding the error is a possible way to look at it, evening up the playingfield by some speculative investment at Scatsta would be my favoured outcome. It has a lot to offer as a second airport for the Isles and surely everyone can agree that two airports are better than one. I'm probably going to run into a world of denial here, but I have to try and clear up a rumour I heard. Someone (a Scatsta employee - imagine that) tried to explain to me the other day that a due to a piece of legislation regarding run off areas that the caa is possibly going to adopt from europe, Sumburgh's extended runway is going to have to reduce it's useable length (possibly to shorter than it was before the extention)? This type of urban myth has more going for it than the other one I heard about the extention sinking (would make a good seaplane ramp though ), as it sounds more realistic. Could be bulls**t baffling brains but I'm rather nosy and would like to know if there's any truth in it?? Before someone shouts at me, I have no proof or facts, I'm just asking the question. I leave to the fine people of shetlink to educate me. :tmbup; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 Sudden Stop, Thanks for the welcome, this whole idea is a great way of putting opinions across, and getting other folks! As for the rumour you've heard, I hope I can go some way to clearing it up for you. I haven't heard anything that suggests that this European legislation is going to come into force, in fact I've never heard even heard of it. (I work in the industry by the way, before I get accused of being an armchair expert!) For every public transport flight, passenger or cargo, the amount of runway needed for take off and landing is carefully calculated. Not to bore you entirely to death with the technicalities, but everything is worked out so that if there is a problem (like engine failure) on take off then the plane can be brought to rest on the runway, not in the shrubbery/sea/back garden or whatever else lies beyond the runway. There is a requirement to have whats called a clearway beyond the end of the runway, with Sumburgh having the best one of the lot as there is nothing at all out there, except maybe Geordie hailin his creels. So if that makes sense, I can't think why a new rule would be brought in that would change this so dramatically, but as we all know Europe works in mysterious ways! I'll keep my lug to the ground about it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudden Stop Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 I haven't heard anything that suggests that this European legislation is going to come into force, in fact I've never heard even heard of it Ha! Figured as much. Competition between the two airports is not healthy (although it is almost being forced upon them) and these kinda of rumours are bound to be made up. Straight off the bat I didn't believe the sinking extention one as it's just rediculous, but the Single European Skies RESA rumour did sound possible - too complicated for a layman to make up. Would have been very poor planning on HIALs behalf though to have missed something like that. There is a requirement to have whats called a clearway beyond the end of the runway, with Sumburgh having the best one of the lot as there is nothing at all out there, except maybe Geordie hailin his creels. The sea isn't deamed safe though is it? I saw an article (can't for the life of me find it now, otherwise i would have inserted a quote) by the operators of London City (sits on reclaimed land in the thames and therefore surrounded by water) outlining their options for increasing their RESA. Basically said, extend the land, displace the threshold or operate as an unlicensed areodrome. The last option not really being an option! So the Sumburgh rumour did actually sound realistic. I have not been down the sooth end for a look, does the runway already have a displaced threshold? If it does, the whole RESA thing may have already been taken into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 I presume the RESA ( Runway End Safe Area) has been included in the distances available on the new runway, but I can check it out. There is a displaced threshold at both ends, so the landing distance available is not as great as the take off distance, (the 09 displaced threshold is actually fairly close to where it was before). The clearway is to give a safe area for an aircraft to climb out, not to set back down again, really just an area free of obstacles over a certain height. We would hope that any future proposed legislation would've been known at the time of the decision to extend the runway, but who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudden Stop Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 (the 09 displaced threshold is actually fairly close to where it was before). Sounds like it's all been taken into account doesn't it. Can you imagine how embarrassing it would be to have to displace the threshold even further!!!! I think the story did include the get out clause that the CAA hadn't yet adopted the european rules yet but could yet still do. I don't know how the CAA works, could some kind of special permission be applied for and granted to Sumburgh if the rules did change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 I don't know if the CAA know how they work!! They're not called Campaign Against Aviation for nothing........ 8O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudden Stop Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 They'd probably work well together with the Stop Island Communitees campaign Anybody got any more?? HIAL? SLAP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludgegulper Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Any more news on the Scatsta/Sumburgh debate?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudden Stop Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 posted today on a different forum by ALTSEL: Shetlands Islands Council have approved ILS both ends for Unst with improved terminal facilities with hot water in the toilets!. Scatsta is history! 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O Bit of a giggle, but you never know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Thats a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludgegulper Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 posted today on a different forum by ALTSEL: Shetlands Islands Council have approved ILS both ends for Unst with improved terminal facilities with hot water in the toilets!. Scatsta is history! 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O Bit of a giggle, but you never know... Can you let us know what forum this was on please. Sounds a cracker to me. Like to read the rest of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudden Stop Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Yeah, it's on the rotorheads forum of www.pprune.com http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253721 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudden Stop Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 What's the crack (pardon the pun) with Sumburgh's shiny new runway extention? I heard bits of it were broken up by the swell last week and that the full length of the runway can't be used 8O . Any news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 What's the crack (pardon the pun) with Sumburgh's shiny new runway extention? I heard bits of it were broken up by the swell last week and that the full length of the runway can't be used 8O . Any news According to the Notices to Airmen the landing distance available on 09 is reduced to 1220m, down from the usual 1245m so not much of a reduction but obviously summit ain't right at the west end of the strip.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestJohnDoe Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 suddenstop sed I heard bits of it were broken up by the swell last week and that the full length of the runway can't be used . nah. I think its been caused by all those muckle 146 jets banging down all week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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