Shetland's airports (and parking)

[Sudden Stop]

Yes, it's a consortium. Which effectively means no one company wants to feel like it is paying for everything. However, give them a running cost which includes a capital repayment charge and bingo! The cost is divided up, budgeted for, a little is added on the top for SLAP and everybody is happy. Why does there have to be something sinister involved?

 

If you wanna talk about the council throwing away money, sorry, but you need to look at the airport at the other end of the island...

[Gerraldene-Jailbird]

Yes, it's a consortium. Which effectively means no one company wants to feel like it is paying for everything.

 

Ok, point taken, so its a Consortium - of 4 Main Companies is it not ?? !! I would of thought that, even they could of worked out that, something costing £8M Divided 4 ways would equal hmm, lets say £2 Million each?? - Nothing to any of them

 

A waste of public money at the other end you say?? Well,lets await and see just how much they plough into the northern airport.. When has the councils financial costings EVER been right? I would estimate personally, at nothing less than 20M, however, i could well be wrong !!

 

Time will tell, and lets hope there are no more 'bombin' bread up nort !! Or any 'crackin' times we ur water eh??

[Sudden Stop]

I think 8 million will be a good start. 20 million would be enough to rebuild the place and that's not on the agenda, i don't think. So far, all reports have refered to 'upto' 8 million. It depends on which works are carried out, they might stop short after sorting out the hangerage and terminal building. That'll not cost 8 million. Who knows, time will tell, you're right there.

 

As for the splitting the cost fours aways. I don't think it works like that, as the companies aren't equal partners and work it out on some kind of per flight basis i think. Future spending on capital works becomes difficult to invoice to any one party like that. A loan from a leasing company is a good method and since SLAP is the one loaning the money and gaining the interest payments, I'm not worried at all.

[Gerraldene-Jailbird]

I think 8 million will be a good start. 20 million would be enough to rebuild the place and that's not on the agenda, i don't think.

 

Exactly, you just said it - 'a great start' !! SLAP throwing in money, with a start of £8M.. Dont get me wrong, i think its great for the northern area to have scatsta again, and it is just as great news for the southern half 2, for not having to work with them !! Hopefully no more 146's banging down one after the other 2-3 times a fortnight (with the exception of atlantic airways) !!

 

You would almost think, that after a review, they might reduce the size of the jets to something like a dash 8 - afterall, the 146's are never full (lucky if they are half full most of the time) due to the lack of payloads, are they not??

 

Regardless of any money being spent to house new S92s, and accomodate more folk, the jets still have t land, and too much wind , as well as not enough wind will still hamper them, which means what?? hmm..

[Ghostrider]

If you wanna talk about the council throwing away money, sorry, but you need to look at the airport at the other end of the island...

 

You reckon?? I don't think it's quite so simple as that, but if Sumburgh is such a waste, maybe HIAL should ban all the flights that end up at Sumburgh baling Scatsta out of one hole or another. We surely could well do without the damn 146's howling round at rooftop height and the choppers clattering round worst than a car without an exhaust.

 

If you want to address the council throwing money away, try considering that Shetland simply just doesn't have adequate air traffic to justify or make viable more than one airport. Scatsta can never replace Sumburgh, just take a look at the number of Scatsta diversions which end up at Sumburgh, versus the number Sumburgh diversions which end up at Scatsta. The council were suckered and bluffed in to letting Scatsta be opened up for crew change use, the oil companies saw an opportunity to trim their costs a little, and called the council's bluff to make it happen.

 

At the end of the day the crew change work was realistically unlikely to leave Shetland, and it's only worth X number of jobs wherever it's located. Right now it's north mainland folk that has them, previously it was south mainland folk, the net result being that Shetland's employment status changed none, only the names on the payslips did. The oil companies are making that little bit extra from the slightly lower costs, and the council are that bit worse off having two airports to support. However you look at it, no more money is coming in to Shetland because of crew change flights being at Scatsta rather than Sumburgh, but it's costs the council, which is everyone's money, more, to keep Scatsta going, and the only ones gaining are the oil companies.

[Njugle]

At the end of the day the crew change work was realistically unlikely to leave Shetland, and it's only worth X number of jobs wherever it's located. Right now it's north mainland folk that has them, previously it was south mainland folk, the net result being that Shetland's employment status changed none, only the names on the payslips did. The oil companies are making that little bit extra from the slightly lower costs, and the council are that bit worse off having two airports to support. However you look at it, no more money is coming in to Shetland because of crew change flights being at Scatsta rather than Sumburgh, but it's costs the council, which is everyone's money, more, to keep Scatsta going, and the only ones gaining are the oil companies.

 

With respect Ghostrider, in terms of employment the arithmatic doesn't follow the 'X' you are identifying. Sumburgh requires say X quantity of security, fire and handling staff, Scatsa requires Y; the number of folk employed if Scatsta traffic was moved to Sumburgh does not equal X+Y, it is a notably reduced figure, for instance, the fire crew at Sumburgh is already at a standard/level that requires only a handful of extras from Scatsta to cover the increased traffic, not the whole lot. Having both airports does provide a fair number of relatively well paid jobs for the local economy. Perhaps not 8million quids worth though, i'll grant you.

[Ghostrider]

^^^ A fair point, but I would contend that the actual numbers involved would be very small. The fire crew certainly, and cleaning, catering and airport managerial/admin staff would bear the brunt of it, but how many people is that in total? and it would only be part of that which would be lost. I've never considered the past investment in Scatsta was a good deal given the number of "new" jobs it created, and ploughing more money in to it is just sending good after bad.

 

The case has never been made to justify two airports for Shetland, and I doubt ever will unless our population increases steeply and/or travelling to/from here for business and/or pleasure becomes far more popular. One airport is all we can justify, and all we can realistically afford long term, it's time the council made up it's mind where that one is going to be and concentrated on making it as good as it possibly can bem instead of splitting what they're prepared to invest across two and not really doing either justice.

[Sudden Stop]

One airport is all we can justify, and all we can realistically afford long term, it's time the council made up it's mind where that one is going to be and concentrated on making it as good as it possibly can bem instead of splitting what they're prepared to invest across two and not really doing either justice.

 

Well, the IAC has just paid a lot of money for outside consultants to come in and tell them which is the best airport to base their operation from. If someone pushes your viewpoint, Sumburgh may find itself in the firing line.

 

...but if Sumburgh is such a waste, maybe HIAL should ban all the flights that end up at Sumburgh baling Scatsta out of one hole or another.

 

As has been spoken about earlier in this thread, the oil operation does what is best for it's passengers at the time. It doesn't just abandon them and cancel the flight. They will resort to using sumburgh if it suits the situation.

 

HIAL would be very stupid to ban any oil diversions, the extra revenue must be a welcome boost whenever it happens.

 

As for the waste of money? What has the runway extention achieved? Next to f*** all, that's what. Of course, when the thresholds have to be displaced further to allow for saftey areas the extentions will provide the room for those safety areas, pity the useable length will shorten again....

 

...but it's costs the council, which is everyone's money, more, to keep Scatsta going, and the only ones gaining are the oil companies.

 

How is it costing the council to keep Scatsta open? The Charitable trusted owned company - SLAP, is going to make a profit from this. How is that costing you money???

[Sudden Stop]

From different forum:

 

New terminal to be built alongside exisiting one (Q2 2008) which will be "landside" allowing pax easier access to outdoors for a smoke, retail outlet, better catering facilities... Offshore personnel to be consulted and have the opportunity to add to design features of new terminal. (All by Q2 2008) Current terminal will become security / suit up areas. Old offices to be demolished. New hangar to accommodate the 6 S-92's (Q4 2007) alongside exisiting. IAC manager position created to ensure service level is optimised (Q4 2007). Primary & secondary radar to be installed (Q1 2008). ILS to be looked at and installed subject to survey (installed Q2 2008 if installed).

Modular design of new hangar and terminal in construction to allow current operation to run without disruption.

 

Advantages of Scatsta said to be: Sole use by IAC, the income from BPSVT terminal movements, having close alternate airfield (Sumburgh), better weather record at Scatsta though not currently taken advantage of due to lack of nav facilities- hence the installation of radar and ILS.

 

Nothing mentioned about any extra tarmac space / length. Fixed wing operator / aircraft to remain for now though I am aware that the IAC will look at replacing fixed wings in the future as some of the 146's are 20 years old.

 

That's where the money is going, in a nutshell!

[Bluemax]

I dont think you should be under the illusion sudden stop, that the public money wasnt the reason that the consortium stayed at Scatsta, as long as the the public aren't conned into thinking that loganair or whoever operate the contract for the scheduled service to Shetland are going to get a better deal than they do at present. It is good that there is a diversionary airport that can accomodate both services in shetland but a pity that once again the local purse strings have had to be loosend to pay for it again, When the principal users are more than able to afford to pay for any such improvements they should wish to make.

[HonestJohnDoe]

Will this money be used to make the airport (Scatsta) more reliable. e,g, will it improve the current problems due to the combination of short narrow runway and cross or light winds which seem to be the primary bugbear of our operating our aircaft in there??

[Sudden Stop]

Will this money be used to make the airport (Scatsta) more reliable. e,g, will it improve the current problems due to the combination of short narrow runway and cross or light winds which seem to be the primary bugbear of our operating our aircaft in there??

 

You know I don't really know.

 

I'll tell you what though, from the landing fees they've collected today with the many many many diversions they've taken from sumburgh they could start a fund to build a new crosswind runway! Not that it's been needed today and it's a cross wind all afternoon.

[Gerraldene-Jailbird]

You know I don't really know.

 

I'll tell you what though, from the landing fees they've collected today with the many many many diversions they've taken from sumburgh they could start a fund to build a new crosswind runway! Not that it's been needed today and it's a cross wind all afternoon.

 

I would agree about the landing fees 100%, maybe wont need council funding afterall?? Although the winds were accross the runway (very light) flying multiple jets with no more than 1/3 loads (with some less than that), does allow them to land, as they have less payload, does it not?? Any right sort of weights, or decent crosswinds and we all know where they end up !!

 

Lets all hope its the same weather tomorrow eh?

[pernjim]

Perhaps a new spirit of Glasnost has hit our airport operators (as bad as the SIC and the LPA if you ask me) - arrangements seem to have been made ahead of time to get the Norwegian families of those poor guys in via Scatsta if necessary - and there were several scheduled flights which came through there yesterday.

 

I've heard that Loganair just stuck their fingers in their ears and went 'lalalala' in the past when anyone suggested they seriously think about diverting to Scatsta when Sumburgh was fogged out. It certainly gave HIAL and the Scottish Exec strength to their elbow when it came to improving Sumburgh to say Scatsta wasn't 'fit for purpose'....

 

Wouldn't it be nice to think the endless days of cancelled flights due to fog might be a thing of the past?

 

And if the business had gone to Sumburgh, the only financial benefit would have gone to HIAL/the Executive - the Scatsta option at least gives the Charitable Trust the chance of making a buck. Jobs? Better a hundred are preserved in the north mainland than twenty or so gained in Dunrossness.

[Sudden Stop]

^^^

 

Exactly.

 

Shetland works best when it works together. Our weather is so changeable and unpredictable that having aircraft operators that are willing to use both airfields, as directed by the weather, to get people to and from the island is far preferable than putting all the air travel eggs in one sumburgh basket.

 

It would have been a terrible shame if Scatsta wasn't there and those families had not been able to get to Shetland yesterday. The weather seems to favour Scatsta again today and even though the rescue operation has finished there's bound to be more passengers moving around today that aren't in the mood to get grounded somewhere.