Bedroom tax/ universal payment

[peenk]

Why is this being called a bedroom tax as most people claiming are not paying tax, should be called sticking two fingers up at hard working people because I don't do work and I know how to work the system reclaim tax.

[shetlandpeat]

I could just post links to the many blogs on hardship, discrimination, injustice by real folk who are suffering with the way these cuts are targetting the few who can least afford it. That however would be a waste of time. We all know that there needs to be a restructure, it is the way it is being implemented is the problem, though folk have been sucked into the blame game of the many reasons that have got us here, this is to offset the nasty way the so called debt is being clawed back. Shout all you want, it is the ConDems that are pointing the guns now, naturally at the masses as they are guarenteed to hit a few.

Without full time jobs, and folk paying tax and NI, it will be a prolonged struggle for those burdened with paying up. Many of the jobs that are "created" are part time, and now folk have to work 24 hours a week to claim additional assistance. You may create 90 jobs, at part time levels, that only equates to 30 FTE jobs of which none pay any income tax especially at the minimum wage of £3.68 for school leavers, unless they are in an appreticeship, then it is £2.65 until you are 19, that would be a full time post though. The minimum wage is there to protect folk, stop them being subject to abuse, the living wge however, is an agrees sum that gives folks a fuller and a more productive life, that is about £7.50.

 

But so you do not feel hard done by by not getting another link, here is one from EEF

 

http://www.eef.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/779379BD-3DC6-49D0-99AA-34D90921E602/21515/RoutetoGrowth1.pdf

[Distortio]

You can put whatever spin you want on it but it is simply fact that Labour spent far, far beyond the government's means and encouraged others to do so. Any growth they achieved was done so on the back of mountainous debt. It is only by luck and the coalition's actions that we haven't suffered like the Greeks & Cypriots.

You can and probably will vote for more Labour mismanagement in 2015 but I and many millions of sensible people won't.

 

none of that was spin, just facts. if you can point out something there that wasn't factual please do.

 

any growth labour achieved was achieved in more or less the same way as with the tories. and there's nothing new in governments running on debt, as the above link clearly shows. remember kenneth clark being asked about debt? he replied something along the lines of "once the figure gets so many zeros on the end it becomes meaningless and you stop worrying about it!"

 

like those "sensible people" you can and probably will vote for more savage tory cuts for the poor and massive handouts to the wealthy in 2015, assuming there hasn't already been a massive vote of no confidence before then.

 

and no, i won't be voting labour, haven't considered it since blair rebranded them and turned them into glossy media-friendly tory clones, the old adage about polishing turds stands true.

[shetlandpeat]

Why is this being called a bedroom tax as most people claiming are not paying tax, should be called sticking two fingers up at hard working people because I don't do work and I know how to work the system reclaim tax.

 

You will find the majority of benefit claimants do work.

 

Only one in eight HB claimants claim JSA

 

 

 

21% are claiming pensions who claim HB

 

Though 23% may claim income support and HB, this does not mean they too are all out of work.

 

35% are in the non-passported part of the numbers, they are working though there are are scant figures on 17% of them. Not earing enough so need HB.

 

So peenk, can you substantiate your claim?

 

Oh, another link incase you miss them, do those on here who have to go and claim benefits relate to some of the text in this story?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/03/how-people-on-benefits-feel

[peenk]

peat are you a lawyer cause I canna understand a word you say.

Would be nice if you just got to the point, and then folk might read your posts instead of going "o its him again" and moving on to the next one

[peenk]

Pete read the post where did I say they did not work, I said did not pay tax.

[peenk]

Pete read the post where did I say they did not work, I said did not pay tax.

[shetlandpeat]

Ah, now you are the VoxPop.

 

So, you did read it, good.

 

You gave the impression you only pay tax if you work. Also, that many do not work and you think they do not want to.

 

Why is this being called a bedroom tax as most people claiming are not paying tax

Every one pays tax, the poorer you are, the more you pay as a %

 

There are also reasons folk do not have to pay some tax, they do not earn enough.

 

sticking two fingers up at hard working people because I don't do work and I know how to work the system reclaim tax.

 

I also would like to take you up on that quote, you give the impression, the many that are claiming are committing fraud.

 

With housing benefit, the DWP say actual fraud is 1.5%

 

Claimant error 2.8%

 

And admin error 0.6%

 

I would note for you as well that 1.4% are not paid enough when checked.

[unlinkedstudent]

With housing benefit, the DWP say actual fraud is 1.5%

 

Claimant error 2.8%

 

And admin error 0.6%

 

Except nobody really knows for sure, do they? Bit like the immigration figures. What year were these figures for and are they for detected/proven fraud? What about the fraud that goes undetected? What's that percentage guesstimate?

[peenk]

You waffle again Peat, I will get to my point .If you are reliant on the state then take what you get and be thankful for it without thinking you are entitled to more just because you exist. If you are self reliant then enjoy the fruits of your labours.

[Ladylady]

With housing benefit, the DWP say actual fraud is 1.5%

 

Claimant error 2.8%

 

And admin error 0.6%

 

Except nobody really knows for sure, do they? Bit like the immigration figures. What year were these figures for and are they for detected/proven fraud? What about the fraud that goes undetected? What's that percentage guesstimate?

 

 

The percentages would remain the same of course. However, from the DWP website, figures for total benefit:

 

Estimates of Fraud and Error by type of error in 2011/12

 

0.7%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to fraud;

 

0.9%, or £1.4bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to claimant error;

 

0.5%, or £0.8bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to official error.

 

0.6%, or £0.9bn, of total benefit expenditure is underpaid due to claimant error;

 

0.3%, or £0.4bn, of total benefit expenditure is underpaid due to official error.

 

Fraud exists, as do errors, but these cases are much less common than some sectors would like us to believe. This hate campaign against those who need to claim benefits is ghastly.

[shetlandpeat]

You could be right, it would also apply to underpayments as well plus those who do not know they can claim. They can only report on what they have found.

 

Though, suggesting that claimants are mostly fraudsters is quite wrong.

 

It would be like me saying many in business advoid paying taxes.

 

Now, as we are reliant on business pulling us out of this with the help of benefit cuts, perhaps we should look there, a figure of £30 billion is not paid, though, as you say about fraud, it could be not.

 

Add to the £30 billion, keeping in minf it is fraud, and of course we do not know all what has been with held.

 

£550 million got back from fuel tax evasion,

 

£830 million in revenues not paid on imported tobacco,

 

£5 billion from Swiss banks accounts.

 

Quite a sum of money, eh.

 

Oh yer, VAT fraud over £3billion

 

 

All the details are on the DWP web site and are the most recent

 

Tax stuff is on the HMRC site

[shetlandpeat]

You waffle again Peat, I will get to my point .If you are reliant on the state then take what you get and be thankful for it without thinking you are entitled to more just because you exist. If you are self reliant then enjoy the fruits of your labours.

 

It is not what you get, it is what you don't get is as big a problem. As mentioned by Sue Marsh on TeeVee, many disabled folk she has worked with have said they would love to get work, but it has to be within their limits. What is happening is shameful now. Some folk do just exist who get these benefits also, not every one has the ability to control them selves, dementia is one.

 

Ladylady is quite correct in the description given that goes against benefit claimants

[Distortio]

it's funny/sad/telling that if this was in any other sector nobody would bat an eyelid.

 

say it was about the amount of vat paid by private companies. of a very small minority of those companies, say some overpaid, some underpaid, but the net difference was negligible.

 

it wouldn't even make the news.

 

but thanks to the daily maul and it's frothing fanbase eager for some external bogeyman to blame for the country's ills, this sort of thing can run and run, fuelled almost exclusively on its own ignorance.

 

just to reiterate some figures that may have been forgotten/ignored:

 

benefit fraud = £1.1bn

unclaimed benefits = £12.7bn

VAT fraud = £11bn

tax dodging = £35-70bn+

uk bank bailouts = £850bn

 

remind us again why the country is in the mess it's in?

 

 

oh, and DM readers, did you know facts give you cancer? yeah, steer clear of those guys.

[unlinkedstudent]

it's funny/sad/telling that if this was in any other sector nobody would bat an eyelid.

 

say it was about the amount of vat paid by private companies. of a very small minority of those companies, say some overpaid, some underpaid, but the net difference was negligible.

 

it wouldn't even make the news.

 

but thanks to the daily maul and it's frothing fanbase eager for some external bogeyman to blame for the country's ills, this sort of thing can run and run, fuelled almost exclusively on its own ignorance.

 

just to reiterate some figures that may have been forgotten/ignored:

 

benefit fraud = £1.1bn

unclaimed benefits = £12.7bn

VAT fraud = £11bn

tax dodging = £35-70bn+

uk bank bailouts = £850bn

 

remind us again why the country is in the mess it's in?

 

 

oh, and DM readers, did you know facts give you cancer? yeah, steer clear of those guys.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right though, do you?