Bedroom tax/ universal payment

[Colin]

are so many really so gullible and susceptible to media brainwashing....

 

The Sun is a big seller, go figure...

[shetlandpeat]

There were fundamental flaws with the poll tax, firstly, it put a burden on those with larger families. If one person out of the house hold failed to pay, the bailiffs would be sent to that address and the confusion erupted about who owned what. It also put a black mark against anyone who would have lived at that address with their credit scoring because of CCJs at that address. As for the fire brigade charge, 5 folk in a 3 bed house would not need as much as a single occupant in a 8 bed mansion. There were too many anomalies. It was not fair.

 

The thing now is that it is a post code lottery on the new Council Tax cuts, some authorities are forcing folk to pay who may never have be eligible to pay, other authorities are not. Seems when ever the Tories are involved in running the GOV, there is this constant mayhem and the stigmatization and ostrazication of the less well off in society. They rush things through, which when implemented have a catastrophic affect on the well being of folk. To entice folk to work, half a million vacancies, 2 million and more unemployed and 6 million or more under employed and claiming benefits. There seems to be a problem with the order of things. Which is, the Tory led coalition is totally out of order.

[Ghostrider]

There were fundamental flaws with the poll tax, firstly, it put a burden on those with larger families. If one person out of the house hold failed to pay, the bailiffs would be sent to that address and the confusion erupted about who owned what. It also put a black mark against anyone who would have lived at that address with their credit scoring because of CCJs at that address. As for the fire brigade charge, 5 folk in a 3 bed house would not need as much as a single occupant in a 8 bed mansion. There were too many anomalies. It was not fair.

 

How was the burden any heavier on larger families? Under 18's weren't charged, and over 18's are adults who are expected to take care of themselves.

 

If the bailiffs go in for any reason to any address the issue of ownership arises, that was not exclusive to the Poll Tax, it is an issue connected with using bailiffs, and disingenuous to use it in a debate against the Poll Tax itself.

 

The negativity for all occupants of an address where a CCJ has been served was not exclusive to the Poll Tax either, it is a unfairness within the CCJ system and needs addressing as such, and an equally disingenuous "reason" to use to "prove" the Poll tax itself was "unfair". BTW, last I heard there is no such thing as a CCJ in Scotland, so yhey're a moot point anyway, given that the Poll tax was only ever enforced in scotland as best as I recall.

 

The Fire Brigade charge portion of the Poll Tax was a very small minority part, there is no perfect system, somebody somewhere will always be subsidising someone else. To reject the whole concept on the grounds of one small minority unfairness (especially to replace it with another inherently unfair system) is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

The thing now is that it is a post code lottery on the new Council Tax cuts, some authorities are forcing folk to pay who may never have be eligible to pay, other authorities are not. Seems when ever the Tories are involved in running the GOV, there is this constant mayhem and the stigmatization and ostrazication of the less well off in society. They rush things through, which when implemented have a catastrophic affect on the well being of folk. To entice folk to work, half a million vacancies, 2 million and more unemployed and 6 million or more under employed and claiming benefits. There seems to be a problem with the order of things. Which is, the Tory led coalition is totally out of order.

 

Ah, yes. The old chestnut of how legislation is interpreted at ground level. Strange how we never hear about it the other way round, when there's a Labour Government and Labour controlled councils have a free hand to spend money they haven't got creating and supporting non-jobs just like their heros in Whitehall do nationwide.

 

Labour's answer to everything is to print more and more money, unfortunately they have yet to realise and accept that to do so everything eventually implodes, you'd have thought after the 70's and the 00's the penny would have dropped, but apparently there's no acounting for how thick your average labour (wo)man is....Then the Tories get bunged in and sift through Labour's wreckage to find anything left that actually has worth, and have to try and bury all the "non-money" Labour have thrown around in a routine worthy of Paul Daniels. Maggie managed it by conning the people in to buying back from her the nationalised industries that already belonged to them, clearly she'd missed her real calling as a used car salesperson....This bunch of toffs find they have not a lot of anything left to sell, so are running with plan "B", cut all spending massively.... Yes, their are casualties and its messy, but there would have been casualties and it would have been messier if Labour were still there, as the implosion would have already occured.

 

Neither party have the ability to run a piss up in a brewery, and as long as they and their supporters both keep on taking cheap shots at each other to score points, the country will continue going to wrack and ruin.

[paulb]

im sure the condems are even better printers.

 

there was a case in england a few days ago of a man being fined for suggesting that a man of welsh heritage was overly friendly with his sheep.

[Ghostrider]

^

 

I'm really not following this, I said a lot of Shetlanders do a lot of things with sheep. I'm a Shetlander, I've done lots of things with sheep.

 

You're pulling in the race card and being "overly friendly" with sheep to that from where exactly?

[paulb]

strange the post that had it in has vanished odd

[shetlandpeat]

Accusing the opposition of stuff they did in the past really does not address the struggle folk are having and the unmeasurable stress they are feeling. If you are in a position where you do not need to claim any benefits so sustain a minimum quality of life then really, you are better off. If, however, you need to rely on benefits to pay for the ever increasing costs of living, then the inclusion of further bills that were never there before will compound that.

Now, also, if you see the sickness levels of some local authorities, you will find them increasing. I was speaking to a health worker at the NHS, he has seen more employees going off with stress and other mental illnesses due to the workloads and targets put on them, he works in mental health.

This is happening all over, so these non-jobs you speak about are really the ones that are needed in many cases, because workloads have increased. They have been cut over and above requirements because of a system that works backwards.

Those who claim benefits are being forced to jump from planes at 10,000 feet and telling them it is up to them to find a parachute on the way down. The end result will be very predictable.

The Bedroom Tax along with the change in social housing contracts will eventually split communities, the quality of the housing will also go down, as you know, folk in social housing have to pay for minor repairs, and decorating costs. If you are only getting a short term lease, you are not going to bother to invest in your home by doing these things, unless you change the contracts to include measures to charge tenants even more, to add the additional drop of up to 25% in income, if not more as the cap it taken from housing benefit then the additional council tax charges.

Yet, we continually hear of companies that do not pay tax in the UK by charging themselves for their own goods enough not to declare a profit.

Just those figures alone would be enough to make a big dent. Also, it is times like this spending on boosting the economy works, also, there will be more folk in need of the help of the social fund as they fall into ill health and have to be cared for. This too goes goes for children, a poor diet and aspirations will lead to another problem in a few decades time.

Here, the County Council puts a higher priority on cutting council tax than it does removing asbestos from our schools. Meanwhile, teachers are being killed by it and pupils as well must be affected.

If the Poll Tax was accepted as fair, why was it dropped?

[go.oot.by.dog]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Excellent post shetlandpeat!

[go.oot.by.dog]

 

In appreciation of 1915 Glasgow Rent Strike leader Mary Barbour, and inspired by 2013 social justice campaigner Mary Lockhart, who suggested the idea of me writing a song for her modern day "Mary Barbour's Army" and is' fight against the Bedroom Tax. And sponsored by the Scottish Co-operative Party ?....I think not! . Lyrics below.

 

We're on the March wi Mary's Army

Nae Sheriff's men will take oor hames

Mary's Army fought the foe, near a hundred years ago

Now we'll fight against injustice once again

 

Glasgow 1915 and the world it was at war

The landlords put the rents up, and the squeeze upon the poor

The Liberals in London washed their hands and closed their eyes

Till Mary said "we've had enough, it;s time tae organise"

 

The sheriffs came a calling with their warrants in their hands

they thought they'd huv it easy, picking tenants one by one

but the women in the city said, "united we will stand"

And chased them out of Glasgow with their pots and frying pans

 

Lloyd George the boss in London had oor Mary put in jail

But the comrades from the Bromielaw they got her oot on bail

She rallied all the workers frae the shipyards and the mills

'Till victory was delivered through a Parliamentary Bill

 

Now today thing might be different, that Nick Clegg he's nae Lloyd George

But his bedroom tax attacks the poor, a 2013 war

And if his sheriffs come around wi' warrants and demands

Ten thousand Mary Barbours will be there to foil his plans.

[shetlandpeat]

Thanks for your comment, and nice ditty, have put it on the Bedroom Tax FB page.

 

Just to add into the mix that the folk Osborne used to instigate this assault of the lower classes have spoken the truth.

 

“To be clear, no one should be arguing to stabilise debt, much less bring it down, until growth is more solidly entrenchedâ€

 

“Borrowing to finance productive infrastructure raises long-run potential growth, ultimately pulling debt ratios lower. We have argued this consistently since the outset of the crisis.â€

 

“We must remember that the choice is not simply between tight-fisted austerity and freewheeling spending. Governments have used a wide range of options over the ages. It is time to return to the toolkit.â€

 

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/05/02/even-the-economists-george-osborne-cited-to-justify-austerity-have-abandoned-him/

[go.oot.by.dog]

Bedroom Tax victim commits suicide: Grandmother Stephanie Bottrill blames government in tragic note

12 May 2013

 

Grandmother who had to pay extra £20 a week throws herself in front of motorway lorry

 

Full article can be read here -

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-victim-commits-suicide-1883600

[Colin]

G.O.B.D

I have a lot of sympathy for those that have been vilified by this government and, unfortunately, are being penalised financially or their 'evil' ways but, for gods sake, keep the cut and paste rubbish for the ATOS thread (which I no longer bother to read) and leave this thread for people who have some original thoughts of their own....

 

If you have to post anything that is not your own work, do the decent thing and post a link. That way, those that are interested enough will go and read it.

[MuckleJoannie]

If G.O.B.D hadn't already posted the link I would have done so. It is depressing what this government is doing to those who are least able to cope with it.

[shetlandpeat]

I was going to post it as well.

 

I do not see though how religion is involved Colin? These threads are open to all. You already said you ignore it.

 

Of around 105,000 Scots households hit by the bedroom tax, 83,000 have an adult with a disability.

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-forcing-disabled-people-1884104

 

This lack of action and retarded responses are typical at the moment. They already knew that there would be a big upheaval, it would have life changing/threatening impacts on those who rely on these benefits.

[Colin]

If G.O.B.D hadn't already posted the link I would have done so. It is depressing what this government is doing to those who are least able to cope with it.

 

Maybe but would you have used the 'Shouty' headlines or just posted a link?