Bedroom tax/ universal payment

[unlinkedstudent]

Though, suggesting that claimants are mostly fraudsters is quite wrong.

 

I don't think anyone is though, are they?

[unlinkedstudent]

This hate campaign against those who need to claim benefits is ghastly.

 

I'm unaware of such a campaign.

[Distortio]

it's funny/sad/telling that if this was in any other sector nobody would bat an eyelid.

 

say it was about the amount of vat paid by private companies. of a very small minority of those companies, say some overpaid, some underpaid, but the net difference was negligible.

 

it wouldn't even make the news.

 

but thanks to the daily maul and it's frothing fanbase eager for some external bogeyman to blame for the country's ills, this sort of thing can run and run, fuelled almost exclusively on its own ignorance.

 

just to reiterate some figures that may have been forgotten/ignored:

 

benefit fraud = £1.1bn

unclaimed benefits = £12.7bn

VAT fraud = £11bn

tax dodging = £35-70bn+

uk bank bailouts = £850bn

 

remind us again why the country is in the mess it's in?

 

 

oh, and DM readers, did you know facts give you cancer? yeah, steer clear of those guys.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting two wrongs make a right though, do you?

 

yes. in many ways. for instance:

 

banking fraud/corruption by popular consensus was wrong.

 

hitting those who can least afford it to pay for those same fraudsters/corrupt banks to keep going is from any reasonable perspective wrong.

 

 

and yes unlinked, the right wing press is very much suggesting people on benefits are "skivers" or did you miss that? if you are unaware of such a campaign i can only assume you just skip straight to the cartoon page.

[shetlandpeat]

^ & ^^ & ^^^

 

Pointless posting really, but feed the troll.

 

Yup, there has been a hate campaign, there seems to be more in the press about benefits than those who could pay and prevent the wholesale hate campaign stirred up by firstly releasing figures on claimants only but not making as big a point on those people who fiddle VAT, fuel duty, tobacco duty and those who exploit systems to avoid paying their share.

 

The suggestion was there, I know you will not want to see it,

 

Why is this being called a bedroom tax as most people claiming are not paying tax, should be called sticking two fingers up at hard working people because I don't do work and I know how to work the system reclaim tax.

 

As you can see, most people claiming don't do work and will manipulate the system, as you know, to claim you need to declare that you are actively seeking a job or unable to.

 

What Distortio others and myself are suggesting, as this is all about money with the veneer of reform, more longterm gains would be had if the reforms, which are needed, were to be done on a slower scale.

 

We are burning the fabric of a good portion of society to keep the country warm yet leaving all the doors and windows open.

 

Now that I have spent some time answering, perhaps you could do what you said you were going to do and ignore me, happy if you don't though, more stimulating postings will of course be had with full engagement.

[unlinkedstudent]

and yes unlinked, the right wing press is very much suggesting people on benefits are "skivers" or did you miss that? if you are unaware of such a campaign i can only assume you just skip straight to the cartoon page.

 

I don't read newspapers apart from occasionally the local rag. I haven't watched television since all the "We must lurve the Olympics and back it" was on. I don't buy into the crap in the press/television hence avoiding them both like the black death.

 

As far as I'm concerned, both left and right parties propaganda machines have always ridiculed each other's supporters; both being equally as ghastly in their insinuations.

[shetlandpeat]

if you are unaware of such a campaign i can only assume you just skip straight to the cartoon page.

 

 

Real stories,some names changed

 

Harry

 

Ok, I really need help, my friend is very near suicide over this. She lives in 3 bed home, has two kids in care (please dont be nasty, domestic violence and mental health issues, she is a good mum) she only gets £61.26 a fortnight due to reductions, her rent shortfall is 22.09 a week, ct is 5.50 a week. This is leaveing her with nothing to live on. She has tried to get deductions reduced but dwp said no, they dont care. She says shes out of time to appeal as letter was sent ages ago and shes not sure if she would get dhp. Kids are due to come home in may, but shes so scared she'll be evicted. Im at a complete loss as to how to help her. Please and help or advice?

 

Hilary Benn MP

Shadow secretary of state for

communities and local government

 

• It is no wonder people feel little or no control over their own lives when Labour, Conservatives and Liberal Democrats are committed to cutting public spending on a massive scale. While people are hurting, the worst of the suffering has yet to hit the majority of working people. Austerity is not a cure for this crisis: it is no more than a smokescreen to destroy the welfare state and dismantle councils across the country. Even mainstream economic commentators are questioning austerity policies.

 

Susan

 

Who the hell is going to exchange me now this bedroom tax. If i move to a two bed with my son when he leaves home i will have to move again . Were do i get the money to keep moving and carpets curtains . Removal fees cardboard box looks like my next option

 

Well, any how, now then, see if you got this far. Could it be fair to say that many houses could be under occupied by non-claimants. This would mean that if you were to loose your job, you could loose your house. Your neighbour pays the same rent for a similar property but because he has the money to stay off benefits he can still under occupy. I thought, we were told that this scheme was to free up housing for those who need it. Now, in Shetland, what proportion is 200 of the total housing stock? Does anyone know how many properties are under occupied yet are not part of this?

[Distortio]

What Distortio others and myself are suggesting, as this is all about money with the veneer of reform, more longterm gains would be had if the reforms, which are needed, were to be done on a slower scale.

 

first part yes, but i am entirely unconvinced these "reforms" are needed at all. in fact if there were to be reforms i would suggest cutting the heaving bureaucracy and hoop jumping which seems to exist largely as a self perpetuating and costly box ticking exercise, and give people the money saved to actually live on. and for anyone about to start throwing a hissy saying "we kant affords it teh labour guvermint braked the kuntreezzz!!1!" just try reading those numbers again. if that doesn't work try again. and again until comprehension takes place. and raise the minimum wage too while yer at it to save you droning on about people being "better off on benefits..."

[unlinkedstudent]

first part yes, but i am entirely unconvinced these "reforms" are needed at all. in fact if there were to be reforms i would suggest cutting the heaving bureaucracy and hoop jumping which seems to exist largely as a self perpetuating and costly box ticking exercise, and actually give people the money saved to actually live on. and for anyone about to start throwing a hissy saying "we kant affords it teh labour guvermint braked the {by the way, do you realise I tried to swear here?}!!1!" just try reading those numbers again. if that doesn't work try again. and again until comprehension takes place. and raise the minimum wage too while yer at it to save you droning on about people being "better off on benefits..."

 

I agree with you, Distortio, that the heaving bureaucracy and hoop jumping needs to be cut. Take the DLA application form - last time I looked at it, it was something like 32 pages yet part of it was repeating itself.

[Distortio]

I don't read newspapers apart from occasionally the local rag. I haven't watched television since all the "We must lurve the Olympics and back it" was on. I don't buy into the crap in the press/television hence avoiding them both like the black death.

 

for someone who lives in an apparent information vacuum you have a lot of acquired right wing views. do you read the mail online?

[Distortio]

the heaving bureaucracy and hoop jumping needs to be cut. Take the DLA application form - last time I looked at it, it was something like 32 pages yet part of it was repeating itself.

 

i don't doubt that at all. that's what happens when regulations get piled on in an attempt to "tighten things up" or "streamline operations" or "reform".

 

hellish.

[shetlandpeat]

OK, maybe. There is a shortage of housing, while builders are not building, another way must be found. I am not in favour of the way it is being done, where many could be seen not to have to downsize or pay and just a few who could not afford the "fee" having to take the brunt. it is discrimination, this policy only affects a few. Contracts should contain a clause that instruct people that they will be required to downsize if the need arose unless there were of course reasons that it would not be practicable. There would have to be the correct housing stock in place FIRST.

There are ways to be able to build new housing, firstly, the hope that the £40 million is freed up from SIC so it can further finance a building program aling the lines mentioned in the Forward Plan.

Islington Council have taken a big step and are going to use the pension fund to build new stock, my fear is the GOV will try to stop them.

 

This is of course far bigger than any of us could handle, though, we know it is wrong to treat folk like cattle, break up communities and the such.

 

GOV can work to create jobs that pay, private companies will not do it, though the expectation is they will, they do however take the free labour on offer.

 

One of the places I do one of my hobbies at is looking at helping one of these folk, we do not have to keep them on the free for the full 8 weeks. Though many are kept free for the full term. We plan to send the person to school/college and teach them a little of business and entertainment. Even to put on bands and acts (just on a note, Poison Popcorn were well received on the radio show, thanks).

 

There is no quick fix, but there is no need to do it the way these ConDems are doing it.

 

Worryingly now, with the emergence of the EDL supported UKIP, there could be even more worrying times at a local level

[unlinkedstudent]

I don't read newspapers apart from occasionally the local rag. I haven't watched television since all the "We must lurve the Olympics and back it" was on. I don't buy into the crap in the press/television hence avoiding them both like the black death.

 

for someone who lives in an apparent information vacuum you have a lot of acquired right wing views. do you read the mail online?

 

Nope. Used to read various publications. I was introduced to politics by my drama teacher who encouraged me to attend an SWP meeting at the ripe old age of 15. I used to have a good mate who was a liberal councillor in Bethnal Green. A load of MAG members (bikers) decided to infiltrate the local tory party in Newham which was a real eye opener. I met Gillian Shephard and explained to her that childcare cost an arm and a leg and why wasn't there a scheme to help with childcare costs (I think she was Minister for Employment or something at the time) and this was before the days of vouchers for nurseries, etc. Another good friend is a staunch labour supporter, doing quite well in Unison. I also hung out in the local labour party club when I was younger.

 

In essence, I've listened to the lot of the old cronies. My friend in the Labour party hates the way the conferences are designed whereby grass root supporters don't get the chance to speak. I liked the fact that the tory party (made up of local associations) did encourage more freedom of speech and debate. The green party is basically communist and I think we can already see the flaws of communism in the world; you still get the rich and corruption no matter what party is in power regardless of the country.

 

It doesn't matter whether you are working, on benefits, disabled, a millionaire, whatever - every Government at some stage will screw you over.

[Distortio]

@peat as a consequence of the right wing press driving the debate people like farage will get more coverage than they would ever deserve, and by trading on the unpopularity of politicians generally and widespread ignorance of europe and basically appealing to people who want their politics in bite sized rabble-rousing intolerance chunks he's succeeded in making the tories shift a little more to the right.

 

thx for the radio play, not sure what the positive reception says about your listeners.

 

@unlinked perhaps the labour conferences discourage that sort of debate as the left (i use the term loosely) has a tendency to lapse into infighting over often minor areas of disagreement. possibly a downside of having started out with some kind of principles. (tory conferences don't have this problem).

 

i disagree about the greens, wouldn't say they're communists. caroline lucas always seemed quite genuine anyway, one of about 5 or 6 politicians i could say that of.

[shetlandpeat]

He he, heard it all now, The Tories open for debate! In both tiers here they vote as one, they are told how to dress, what to say, some are told to stay out of the way, they cannot contribute without permission from their leader.

 

 

I have spoken at conferences, not really any obstacles to stop you.

 

On a more serious not, the Bedroom Tax has been hijacked by the BNP. They are making some way off claims about how certain religious groups can be exempt. Trouble with these right wing bigots, is they are still around.

[unlinkedstudent]

 

i disagree about the greens, wouldn't say they're communists. caroline lucas always seemed quite genuine anyway, one of about 5 or 6 politicians i could say that of.

 

It was when reading through their literature some years ago in some detail that I came across what they intended to do regarding wages. They wanted a scale of wages dependent upon what job you were doing. Now that's exactly what they do in Cuba, hence my comment. Whether or not the Greens still have that policy now or not, I don't know TBH.

 

With regard to politicians in general, I think we are severely lacking. The majority all seem to have gone to the same "charm school" - the way they talk with their hands and the gestures they make, together with the "Now I don't think that is the question you really intended asking, perhaps what you meant to ask was blah blah blah" instead of just answering the blooming question asked!

 

Likewise with the press - where have all the decent journalists gone?