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Fully agree with Karlos in the 'switch the rear foglight(s) OFF when you see another car's headlights in your rear-view mirror' summary.

 

As for front foglights...if it's too misty to see with just dipped headlights...then slow the **** down. They aren't some sort of invinciblity cloak.

 

Also - sidelights...what IS the point of them? All they seem to do is encourage morons to switch them on and think they're suddenly hyper-visible. Worst invention ever...unless someone can convince me they have a relevant use.

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This is the legal position on use of parking lights when the vehicle is moving

 

https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/lighting-requirements-113-to-116

You MUST

 

ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise

use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified

use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226).

 

Night (the hours of darkness) is defined as the period between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise).

Laws RVLR regs 3, 24, & 25, (In Scotland - RTRA 1984 sect 82 (as amended by NRSWA, para 59 of sched 8 ))

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But that's the whole idea of fog lights to let the vehicle behind know you are there in time for you to re-act like slow down and keep a safe distance , it is then then the driver of the lead vehicle to turn off their lights as they have done the job of warning; hense "fog warning lights" SIMPLES !!!

 

I don't agree with this method of fog light use at all - the idea of switching them off when you see the headlights of another car behind you, I've never heard of that before.

If you are driving in genuine foggy conditions (ie viz below 100m) then if a car behind you sees your fog light in front of them, your fog light hasn't done its job, it's doing its job. If you then switch your fog light off he is no longer visible with you, as the fog light was the only part of your vehicle he could see to judge his distance from you. If you go and switch your light off he has lost his only visual reference.

A fog light is very bright in normal, clear, daytime conditions, but in condensed water vapour the light is diffused to a much lower intensity by the suspended water droplets. You would have to be very close (way too close) to a car in fog to be dazzled by its fog light.

Driving in those condition can be challenging enough without constantly switching your fog light off and on everytime you see a car in your mirror.

Even more simples is if the visibility is seriously reduced - fog light goes on, when visibility improves - fog light goes off again.

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....

 

I don't agree with this method of fog light use at all - the idea of switching them off when you see the headlights of another car behind you, I've never heard of that before.

If you are driving in genuine foggy conditions (ie viz below 100m) then if a car behind you sees your fog light in front of them, your fog light hasn't done its job, it's doing its job. If you then switch your fog light off he is no longer visible with you, as the fog light was the only part of your vehicle he could see to judge his distance from you. If you go and switch your light off he has lost his only visual reference.

A fog light is very bright in normal, clear, daytime conditions, but in condensed water vapour the light is diffused to a much lower intensity by the suspended water droplets. You would have to be very close (way too close) to a car in fog to be dazzled by its fog light.

Driving in those condition can be challenging enough without constantly switching your fog light off and on everytime you see a car in your mirror.

Even more simples is if the visibility is seriously reduced - fog light goes on, when visibility improves - fog light goes off again.

 

If you can see the vehicle behind you - then they can see you, so fog lights off - they are unnecessary and stand a chance of masking your brake lights.

 

You would not have to be 'too close' to the vehicle in front to be dazzled by their rear fogs, in fact, if there is moisture/drizzle forming on the windscreen, or it is dark and wet it can cause glare that, again, masks brake lights.

 

As for being conditions being too challenging to operate a simple switch and be aware of how your actions are affecting other road users:

 

May I suggest you take the bus? :P

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^^

I still disagree with your 'technique.'

If you can see the vehicle behind you in fog then he is too damn close!

Assuming it is proper fog conditions, less than 100m visibility, if you are driving close enough to the car in front to be dazzled by its fog light then you are probably driving closer than your car's stopping distance, should you have to stop suddenly.

40mph - stopping distance 36 metres

50mph - stopping distance 53 metres

60mph - stopping distance 73 metres

 

Whilst I don't personally find it too challenging to operate a single switch, the bit I do struggle with is the telepathy of knowing when the driver behind me has seen me. Folk drive into each other on beautiful clear days when they should see the car in front/behind/next to them, so how can you be sure they've seen you in fog? You'd be surprised how blind some drivers can be.

 

As for switching them on and off, may I suggest you absorb the advise of those good folks at the AA (not the alcoholics one):

From www.theaa.com

 

Fog lights

 

Use common sense when it comes to fog lights. Some drivers are worried about dazzling other motorists, and some simply don't know how to turn them on.

 

Generally it's better to be safe than sorry, so use them when appropriate. Don't keep switching them on and off, though – this can be a distraction, so wait for a consistent improvement in visibility before switching them off - front and back.

 

I'm going to go with them on this one :P

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Don't keep switching them on and off, though – this can be a distraction,

The other big factor in this is that fog lights generally don't have easily accessible switches similar to the main beam flick on/off. Scrabbling for a dash-mounted switch every few minutes (considering that Shetland fog is invariably very patchy) may well cause an incident that the lights were designed to help avoid.

 

I'd rather people concentrated on what was going on in front of them rather than behind.

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Just because you can see the headlights of the car behind doesn't mean he can see your normal tail lights.

If the rear fog lights of the car in front are too bright in fog, back off.

There seems to be a tendency to lock in on the lights of the car in front in fog, tailgating him, which assumes he knows what he is doing.

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OK, lets clear a few things up:

 

In fog, you have no control over the actions of the driver behind, therefore it's in your interest to help them out as much as possible. If you can see the vehicle behind you NOT just the lights - then they can see you - so no need for the Christmas decorations to be in full swing.

If you leave your rear fogs on, there is a very real chance that the driver behind may not see your brake lights coming on, bear in mind that some drivers don't pay attention at the best of times.....

 

Stopping distances? Sorry, that's almost an irrelevance in this situation as you have no control over how close the car behind you is going to be. Also, the dimmer members of the driving community will hang on to the vehicle in front in heavy fog.

 

Regarding your comment about maintaining the correct distance and not being able to dazzle/be dazzled - sorry, but that is an idealistic situation.

 

BTW, for assessing your own distance from the car in front, the Two Second Rule is much more efficient than trying to assess some abstract measurement. Don't forget to double it in the wet.

 

Could you tell me the correct distance for heavy traffic speeding up and slowing down between 5 and 20mph? There isn't one on the HC.....

Heavy traffic will inevetibly bunch up at some point, reducing safety bubbles around vehicles. Add in drizzle, fog and poorly managed foglights into the mix and cars can and will start bouncing off each other.

 

Or, at best, you'll get pished off with the car in front for blinding you and the driver behind will not be your friend for doing the same to him/her......

 

Plan ahead and drive safe, folks. :)

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......

 

As for switching them on and off, may I suggest you absorb the advise of those good folks at the AA (not the alcoholics one):

From www.theaa.com

 

Fog lights

 

Use common sense when it comes to fog lights. Some drivers are worried about dazzling other motorists, and some simply don't know how to turn them on.

 

Generally it's better to be safe than sorry, so use them when appropriate. Don't keep switching them on and off, though – this can be a distraction, so wait for a consistent improvement in visibility before switching them off - front and back.

 

I'm going to go with them on this one :P

 

 

The key comment is "Use common sense". No one is suggesting you become a mobile disco lighting system, flicking them on and off every few seconds.

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It's interesting to hear folk's opinions in this subject, obviously everybody has different ideas of what's best and why. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the "on-off-on" method in fog.

 

OK, lets clear a few things up:

 

In fog, you have no control over the actions of the driver behind, therefore it's in your interest to help them out as much as possible. If you can see the vehicle behind you NOT just the lights - then they can see you - so no need for the Christmas decorations to be in full swing.

If you are in fog and the car behind you is driving so close that you can see not only his lights but the vehicle itself then they are driving dangerously close to you (assuming an open stretch of road, not urban.) If they are being dazzled by my fog light then they should back off to a safe distance, thus giving a far greater reaction time and less chance of rear-ending the lead car.

 

If you leave your rear fogs on, there is a very real chance that the driver behind may not see your brake lights coming on, bear in mind that some drivers don't pay attention at the best of times.....

Possibly, but at the same time if you switch off your rear fog light and aren't braking, he is going to lose sight of you as he sure as hell isn't going to see your tail lights if it is foggy. He has gone from having a positive visual reference to the car in front of him to losing sight of it, but knowing it is still very close - but no idea of knowing how close. This is far more dangerous.

There is only ever one rear fog light on a vehicle, so the brake lights will still be visible, especially on the side of the car which doesn't contain the fog light in its cluster. Many fog lights are mounted below the bumper so both brake lights are visible.

 

Stopping distances? Sorry, that's almost an irrelevance in this situation as you have no control over how close the car behind you is going to be. Also, the dimmer members of the driving community will hang on to the vehicle in front in heavy fog.

I agree about people hanging on to the vehicle in front in heavy fog, and here lies the root of the problem. Why does somebody have to drive so close to the car in front at all times, whatever the weather? I would personally rather drive in fog with no car in front of me but knowing that if they are there they should have their fog lights on, rather than constantly driving so close to the car in front that my concentration level is reduced over time with my desperation to stay in sight of him - especially if he is frequently switching his fog light off and on.

In either case, again if the car following close behind you is being dazzled by your fog light (and it is actually foggy) then again he is driving far too close and should back off so that he is a)not being dazzled and B) has a fighting chance of stopping in time should the lead car stop suddenly.

 

Regarding your comment about maintaining the correct distance and not being able to dazzle/be dazzled - sorry, but that is an idealistic situation.

Exactly - it would be ideal if people would do it!

 

BTW, for assessing your own distance from the car in front, the Two Second Rule is much more efficient than trying to assess some abstract measurement. Don't forget to double it in the wet.

..... and what exactly do you do to it in fog?! Treble it? times it by ten? I don't think the Two Second Rule really applies in fog, does it? I would be very worried if the driver behind me was relying on that in reduced visiblity.

 

Could you tell me the correct distance for heavy traffic speeding up and slowing down between 5 and 20mph? There isn't one on the HC.....

Of course I can't, it's an impossible figure to compute.

 

Heavy traffic will inevetibly bunch up at some point, reducing safety bubbles around vehicles. Add in drizzle, fog and poorly managed foglights into the mix and cars can and will start bouncing off each other.

Yes they will, especially if people have less time to react because so many drivers are switching their fog lights off and on..... :wink:

Out of interest, (and I know this doesn't apply to Shetland (yet!)) how do you manage your fog lights if driving on a dual carriageway? If you see a car behind you but in the next lane do you switch your fog light off? What happens if a car comes up behind you in the lane you are in after this, do you switch it back on again? Oh no you can't, there's a car in the next lane behind you, but he's seen you and the car behind you hasn't, so maybe it should be switched back on? Oh wait, no that will dazzle the other driver so I'll just......BANG!!!! Car crash.....

 

 

Plan ahead and drive safe, folks. :)

 

Either way, absolutely. Things can very quickly turn bad, especially when folk canna see

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OK, lets clear a few things up:

 

In fog, you have no control over the actions of the driver behind, therefore it's in your interest to help them out as much as possible. If you can see the vehicle behind you NOT just the lights - then they can see you - so no need for the Christmas decorations to be in full swing.

If you leave your rear fogs on, there is a very real chance that the driver behind may not see your brake lights coming on, bear in mind that some drivers don't pay attention at the best of times.....

 

:)

Let's just say you're out driving in the fog and you're following a car with its rear fog lights on, suddenly there's a big crash and you've just run up the ass of the aforementioned car. The usual formalitys take place and the police turn up as you'd expect, how do you think the nice police officer will react when they hear you blame the crash on the fact that you couldn't tell the difference between the cars break lights and its fog lights, and how you feel that the car in front should have switched off its fogs to make it easier for you to differentiate between the 2 sets of lights.

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Also, can you imagine the dialogue with your insurers if somebody rear-ends you because you switched your fog lights off when you think they saw you?

 

Person "Hello, some git's just rear-ended me in dense fog and written off my car."

 

Insurer "That's jolly bad luck, I hope you're alright. So you were driving in dense fog, I presume you had your rear fog light on?"

 

Person "Err, no, actually, I switched it off when I saw him in my mirror."

 

Insurer "Um, err, could you say that again?"

 

Person "My fog light was on, in case there were any cars behind me. Then when I then saw a car behind me I switched it off."

 

Insurer "Well why did you do that?"

 

Person "So that he wouldn't see my fog light."

 

Insurer "OK, I don't fully understand. So you switched your fog warning light off while driving in fog, to warn the other driver that you were in fog and to let him know that you thought he had probably seen you."

 

Person "Yes."

 

Insurer "And had he seen you?"

 

Person "No."

 

Insurer "Why not?"

 

Person "Because I switched my fog light off."

 

Insurer "Yeah, we're probably not going to pay out your insurance."

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OK, lets clear a few things up:

 

In fog, you have no control over the actions of the driver behind, therefore it's in your interest to help them out as much as possible. If you can see the vehicle behind you NOT just the lights - then they can see you - so no need for the Christmas decorations to be in full swing.

If you leave your rear fogs on, there is a very real chance that the driver behind may not see your brake lights coming on, bear in mind that some drivers don't pay attention at the best of times.....

 

:)

Let's just say you're out driving in the fog and you're following a car with its rear fog lights on, suddenly there's a big crash and you've just run up the ass of the aforementioned car. The usual formalitys take place and the police turn up as you'd expect, how do you think the nice police officer will react when they hear you blame the crash on the fact that you couldn't tell the difference between the cars break lights and its fog lights, and how you feel that the car in front should have switched off its fogs to make it easier for you to differentiate between the 2 sets of lights.

 

I wouldn't crash, as I'd be driving defensively and travelling at a speed (and distance) that allowed me plan ahead and make allowances for other drivers lack of consideration.......

 

:wink:

 

All I can suggest is that you go to any area that has heavy traffic on the road and then drive in fog and rain - preferably in a multi-lane situation at night. You might then rethink your comment about being 'unable to tell the difference'. Especially after driving, say, for a 100 miles in those conditions.

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