School closures

[shetlandpeat]

I think your right unlink, some countries don't teach their children to read until after 6/7 yrs and then they seem to overtake and do better than those children that started a more formal structured education earlier.....

 

That is not really a reflection of the schooling but possibly an attitude of a nation. To some societies, education is the only way to lift ones self out of the rut, families there will give up all and do all to educate their children. I do find it slightly numbing if we compare what is being suggested here and what happens on poorer countries. Even giving the children a good breakfast can greatly influence the learning experience, as well as the sh1te we allow to be pumped into our children, that to has a bearing. The drift of this thread is we want our kids to have a good education if someone else does it. No mention of anyone committing time to educating their own children, more about the inconvenience of getting the child educated.

 

Was the Lerwick school not the "Central School" I am sure I have seen the in stone somewhere.

[Spinner72]

Islesburgh was the Central School, it is indeed in stone. But not for Shetland, for Lerwick.

 

Lots of good points being made, and the new legislation on Nursery teaching is a great example of where the councils hands are tied regarding cuts in education.

 

Lets put it this way - the number of teachers can't be reduced much due to class size restrictions, closing schools doesn't appear to be economical and will often cost more, so, where do they make the saving?

[unlinkedstudent]

... Lets put it this way - the number of teachers can't be reduced much due to class size restrictions, closing schools doesn't appear to be economical and will often cost more, so, where do they make the saving?

 

On staff promotion? I don't know if the same system is in use in Scotland as in England but I recall one particular Governors meeting I attended (I was a parent governor for a primary school yonks ago).

 

The music teacher wanted additional training. The Head voted in her favour, as did all of the other teachers. All those from the private sector and the parent governors voted against. The teacher was absolutely livid that we were apparently stopping her from furthering her career. But we weren't doing as there was nothing to stop her from paying for the additional training herself (But even then, the school would have suffered financially). Why did we vote against? Because had she got the additional training she would have automatically moved up TWO pay grades and the post she held didn't need that level - in essence, the primary school would have been employing a music teacher qualified to teach at senior school level.

 

I'm not for one moment suggesting that staff should lose their positions if their qualifications exceed those outlined for the posts they hold but if the Scottish system is the same, then perhaps cut back on any unnecessary staff training?

 

I'm told there's a swimming pool at the school up the road ... I've no idea if it is open to the public or not, or available for hire. How many school facilities are hired out?

[Scorrie]

.....

 

That is not really a reflection of the schooling but possibly an attitude of a nation. To some societies, education is the only way to lift ones self out of the rut, families there will give up all and do all to educate their children. I do find it slightly numbing if we compare what is being suggested here and what happens on poorer countries. Even giving the children a good breakfast can greatly influence the learning experience, as well as the sh1te we allow to be pumped into our children, that to has a bearing. The drift of this thread is we want our kids to have a good education if someone else does it. No mention of anyone committing time to educating their own children, more about the inconvenience of getting the child educated.

 

.....

 

[shetlandpeat]

 

 

The music teacher wanted additional training. The Head voted in her favour, as did all of the other teachers. All those from the private sector and the parent governors voted against. The teacher was absolutely livid that we were apparently stopping her from furthering her career.

 

Yup, kicking moral and personal development into the long grass.

 

It may be why there are grumblings via the unions now, the headmasters union and the NUT are seeing the system failing because of such attitudes. Dumbing down teachers is not really a good thing, having our children taught by highly qualified teachers is surely a prerequisite.

 

All of the school governors I meet (I meet with about 20 a month) would not even dream of holding back anyone who shows a potential to strive, it is part of the terms of employment and again, collective bargaining.

[Rubbernecker]

 

 

The music teacher wanted additional training. The Head voted in her favour, as did all of the other teachers. All those from the private sector and the parent governors voted against. The teacher was absolutely livid that we were apparently stopping her from furthering her career.

 

Yup, kicking moral and personal development into the long grass.

 

It may be why there are grumblings via the unions now, the headmasters union and the NUT are seeing the system failing because of such attitudes. Dumbing down teachers is not really a good thing, having our children taught by highly qualified teachers is surely a prerequisite.

 

All of the school governors I meet (I meet with about 20 a month) would not even dream of holding back anyone who shows a potential to strive, it is part of the terms of employment and again, collective bargaining.

You seem to be ignoring the point that the teacher mentioned would then get paid more than was required to do the job. 'Not to dream' of stopping a teacher getting any training seems a peculiar attitude. All training needs budgeted for and should be relevant and necessary.

[trowie246]

That is not really a reflection of the schooling but possibly an attitude of a nation. To some societies, education is the only way to lift ones self out of the rut, families there will give up all and do all to educate their children. I do find it slightly numbing if we compare what is being suggested here and what happens on poorer countries. Even giving the children a good breakfast can greatly influence the learning experience, as well as the sh1te we allow to be pumped into our children, that to has a bearing. The drift of this thread is we want our kids to have a good education if someone else does it. No mention of anyone committing time to educating their own children, more about the inconvenience of getting the child educated.

 

No one has mentioned the role of parents in their bairns education because that wasn't what we were talking about, but since you've brought it up there is a huge emphasis at out school about parental involvement and research shows that bairns that are encouraged and helped by their parents do much better than ones that are not.

 

Personally I struggle to be a confident teacher of my child, am I doing the right thing, what do I do etc etc and I'm sure a lot of parents feel the same way but the school here is brilliant at passing on advice and ideas eg giving us web site addresses of games to play with your child online, which works very well for me because we all use computers and it has become a very natural thing to sit down for half and hour and play sumdog with my bairn.

[Silvercloud]

SP, it just happen to been article I read some time ago, and it wasn't talking about poorer countries, but indeed parts of America in affluent areas.

Children attended school or kindergarten but did not start formally reading til later that doesn't mean that children did not open a book, but was much less pressure to start formal reading and being on certain levels by certain age. Not say I personally agree, it was something I read in an article.

I don't think there is a one set way to learn and depending on the child some do mature and develop later including learning to read ,some children just have little ineterst in reading at 4 or 5 yrs age,but by 6,7 are ready and race on.

[paulb]

3.36 For children aged three and over in maintained nursery schools and

nursery classes in maintained schools (except for children in reception

classes):

• there must be at least one member of staff for every 13 children;

• at least one member of staff must be a school teacher as defined by

Section 122 of the Education Act 2002 and the Education (School

Teachers’ Qualifications) (England) Regulations 2003; and

• at least one other member of staff must hold a full and relevant level 3

qualification.

 

taken from

 

http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/EYFS-Statutory-Framework-2012.pdf

 

so is the scottish rules different.

[unlinkedstudent]

 

 

The music teacher wanted additional training. The Head voted in her favour, as did all of the other teachers. All those from the private sector and the parent governors voted against. The teacher was absolutely livid that we were apparently stopping her from furthering her career.

 

Yup, kicking moral and personal development into the long grass.

 

It may be why there are grumblings via the unions now, the headmasters union and the NUT are seeing the system failing because of such attitudes. Dumbing down teachers is not really a good thing, having our children taught by highly qualified teachers is surely a prerequisite.

 

All of the school governors I meet (I meet with about 20 a month) would not even dream of holding back anyone who shows a potential to strive, it is part of the terms of employment and again, collective bargaining.

 

Every single public sector organisation I've worked for has had personal development plans and every time it has been discussed, there is mention of it being in line with the job you do/available promotion within the organisation. Schools have their own budgets allocated from local authorities usually. If there are no promotion prospects within the school, why should the school pay for the additional training/qualifications? If there are no promotion prospects within the local authority, why should they fund additional training? Training to keep up with current teaching methods is fine but when somebody wants to move up two pay scales (like in the example I gave) then that ain't on if there are no chances of promotion within said school. If it was a case whereby the local authority gave additional funds for training in say a separate budget for teachers to gain further qualifications AND there were unfilled posts/vacancies about to arise then okay ... but let's be honest here, where's the money coming from and is there the need?

 

And if your attitude and approach be adopted, then you could end up with all the lower grade teaching jobs being done by teachers qualified to headteacher level and be on headteacher salaries - where's the sense in that?

[Ghostrider]

No mention of anyone committing time to educating their own children, more about the inconvenience of getting the child educated.

 

I take it you've never seriously tried to pursue self-educating with the SIC Education people, or indeed perhaps there has been a revolution of attitude within the department, and pigs might fly....

 

Past experience with them went something along the lines of polite but heavy dissuasion, which descended in to borderline sleights of the proposed educator's ability to educate without first investigating their suitability, and finally the party piece of all aspects of the SIC, being ignored/stonewalled.

 

The overall message received was something along the lines of: "How can you possibly not want your child to benefit from our simply wonderful education system, and how could you ever contemplate that you could begin to provide anything remotely comparable yourself". Hardly encouraging people is it - in fact by all appearances it was designed to do the complete opposite as far as they could get away with it, and for the most part it worked.

[khitajrah]

^ I know one mother who home educated very successfully for many years with complete support from the SIC.

 

My partner and I were discussing it today too. If these proposed changes do come into effect we'll be weighing up the advantages/disadvantages and giving serious consideration to home education, at least for our eldest. The thought of him having to share a bus with known bullies for several hours a day fills me with dread.

[Frances144]

Two hours a day on a bus with bullies is unspeakable. My daughter had to endure it.

 

There is no jurisdiction on the buses as they are considered outwith the school's responsibility and not the bus driver's problem.

 

Hell on wheels for some.

[shetlandpeat]

^ that is good to hear.

 

My postings about education in poorer areas and the marked distinction between the importance of education was really about some of the comments here and on the other education threads about the exact same subject.

 

At one time, teachers did used to move around schools in areas and were promoted once they had attained levels. Holding back teachers development is a negative. It does not enthuse the teacher to do anything extra. Teachers do an immense amount of work, they are subdued by Government and abused by parents and pupils, then you tell them they cannot progress. Short sighted.

[Ghostrider]

^ I know one mother who home educated very successfully for many years with complete support from the SIC.

 

Glad to hear it, and long may it continue. The SIC maybe will manage to catch up with reality eventually.