School closures

[Staney Dale]

Poverty is a serious problem, and just now hard-pressed families are struggling ever more as they have to buy all their child's school materials and pay far more for out of school activities. This affects everyone, right across Shetland, I do not see why closing a school increases poverty, when there is access instead to another very good school, with free transport, a chance to access a wider range of subjects and activities and a bigger peer group. I would have thought that increased the life chances and options of the child.

 

Children, teenagers especially, do not necessarily want to spend their entire school life in the same small community and the same peer group. It can be stifling for them. If bullying occurs, there is no escape. If there are teachers they don't gel with, they have no alternative. Some - rather a lot if you consider the large proportion who go to bigger schools through placing requests - actually do want to move. There is a danger at the moment that our young people are being affected by all the clamour and convinced they are in peril if they have to go to a bigger school. They should not also have to deal with the burden of guilt that closure of their school will close down their community and force their parents to move. Children will not respect their community if it holds them back.

 

Meanwhile, the quality of education is suffering right across Shetland because we are maintaining under-occupied buildings and spending vastly more than we need to on trying to provide an equitable secondary education there. It is not demonstrating that we have got out budget under control. Every other service is having to pay for it, as is all the population, especially the poor. If we don't get our act together, we'll be put under special measures and our services closed down for us. Maybe that is easier than all this vicious argument, but it's not what I want to see.

 

It is not legitimate to spend e.g. £33,000 per child on secondary education in Baltasound when there are high-quality and better-value alternatives. If people really are moving there to take advantage of a school that costs us all so dear then I'm afraid I don't see what economic benefit they are to us. If we want to alleviate poverty we need to sort this out and make sure our education spend is fair and good value for all children.

[JustMe]

I am sympathetic towards people such as madmandy in Fetlar especially as some very good friends of mine have a kid who is somewhere in the autistic spectrum.  I am also sympathetic to new arrivals in Voe who are praising the Olnafirth school and even the parents of seasick kids on Skerries.  But I am also sympathetic towards me.  Council cuts have to be made and maybe I will lose street lights, have already lost the refuse skips, may lose the bus station and even my daily bus to Lerwick might be in doubt. 

 

What I am not so happy about is the idea that cash saving cannot be included in the discussion about school closures.  This kind of works both ways.  If there is no cash saving then why close a school?.  But if there is a good cash saving to be made from closing a school then surely this ought to be part of the consideration.

 

I would also add that there should be a reasonable time limit for pupils travelling to Lerwick and if that cannot happen then the local school should be kept open.  Like can all the kids from Aith get to Lerwick within the time limit?.  Or those from Sandwick.........at least from the depths of the South Mainland.

[hjasga]

Many of the Rural community in Shetland are not only remote, but fragile and vulnerable,many know how expensive living in the remoter Islands, never mind children being educated in the same age group.( this does not improve their education)

 

One of the many biggest damage to a childs education is poverty.

 

If the SIC cause poverty to the fragile community of the children,and especially the childs parents, grand parents etc this will be one of the biggest negative effects on the childrens education. A background of poverty effects a childs education more than being in the same age group.

 

I believe closing a School like Skerries, Unst,Yell,or Whalsey,  would effect the economics of these beautiful Islands as per the various socio economic reports indicate.

 

I give you these research links that back these poverty findings

 http://www.esrc.ac.uk/news-and-events/features-casestudies/features/15263/The_gap_years_education_and_social_immobility.aspx

 

End of the day we do not want these Islands ending up like St Kilda, or Papa Stour?

 

What of the effects on poverty-stricken families without school closures? What happens when the education budget won't stretch far enough to provide pens and jotters? Current proposals show that without reducing the school estate we are going to see massive changes in the education system that will effect everybody, not just those who have chosen to live in remote areas.

[hjasga]

Hi Trowie- I am not aware of catrionas comment however if that is what she said she will have measured her words and chosen them carefully.

Perhaps -a radical thought what is needed here is for the three Northern Isles and other remote islands to have a budget for their needs be it education or roads and decide for themselves what services they deem relevant to them. Thus if they were given their allocation of the education budget it would be up to each to decide who what where and how. I believe that would be decentralisation and so could never happen.

instead of building a new Anderson why don't all the children travel to Aberdeen every week on Sunday night arriving in time for school on Monday??? Think of all the money saved. Don't like that idea? No well from up here in the North it seem reasonable. Just think Lerwick children would be on one ferry instead of two ferries and several busses. They would be with their peers in a herd learning important life skills...

In fact the more I think about it the better it sounds. All children over 11 to Aberdeen all week- for the good of their future- and the current school used as a giant primary boarding department. Instead of learning about oh crofting at home they can do it as a lesson.

Lerwick is considered a remote outpost by mainland Scotland so don't think that this could not happen.

 

This is a very lazy analogy and really not comparable.

[hjasga]

Poverty is a serious problem, and just now hard-pressed families are struggling ever more as they have to buy all their child's school materials and pay far more for out of school activities. This affects everyone, right across Shetland, I do not see why closing a school increases poverty, when there is access instead to another very good school, with free transport, a chance to access a wider range of subjects and activities and a bigger peer group. I would have thought that increased the life chances and options of the child.

 

Children, teenagers especially, do not necessarily want to spend their entire school life in the same small community and the same peer group. It can be stifling for them. If bullying occurs, there is no escape. If there are teachers they don't gel with, they have no alternative. Some - rather a lot if you consider the large proportion who go to bigger schools through placing requests - actually do want to move. There is a danger at the moment that our young people are being affected by all the clamour and convinced they are in peril if they have to go to a bigger school. They should not also have to deal with the burden of guilt that closure of their school will close down their community and force their parents to move. Children will not respect their community if it holds them back.

 

Meanwhile, the quality of education is suffering right across Shetland because we are maintaining under-occupied buildings and spending vastly more than we need to on trying to provide an equitable secondary education there. It is not demonstrating that we have got out budget under control. Every other service is having to pay for it, as is all the population, especially the poor. If we don't get our act together, we'll be put under special measures and our services closed down for us. Maybe that is easier than all this vicious argument, but it's not what I want to see.

 

It is not legitimate to spend e.g. £33,000 per child on secondary education in Baltasound when there are high-quality and better-value alternatives. If people really are moving there to take advantage of a school that costs us all so dear then I'm afraid I don't see what economic benefit they are to us. If we want to alleviate poverty we need to sort this out and make sure our education spend is fair and good value for all children.

 

This post, the second paragraph in particular, is great. I agree wholeheartedly.

[hjasga]

 

What I am not so happy about is the idea that cash saving cannot be included in the discussion about school closures.  This kind of works both ways.  If there is no cash saving then why close a school?.  But if there is a good cash saving to be made from closing a school then surely this ought to be part of the consideration.

 

 

It is Scottish Law that a school closure cannot be recommended purely on the basis of finances. The local authority has to show some educational benefit in their closure proposal. 

[KairaWRX]

 

Children, teenagers especially, do not necessarily want to spend their entire school life in the same small community and the same peer group.

 

Have you asked my children where they want to spend their school life? Would you like to?

[brian.smith]

Hi all first post here so be gentle.

I am one of those described as an outsider or incomer and  yes I live on one of the Isles.

I don’t think in all my years I have read such an emotive issue and I do feel for those who are affected. When I arrived I found it hard to grasp the need for some of the isles older kids to have to board but having been here a while I have got a grasp on the concept and would actually say it does benefit  them and certainly improves communication skills.

 

Now to the thread school closures. I have a couple of questions.

 

Has alternatives to closing the schools been explored?

 

Does Shetland council not get extra central funding in their budget to provide these remote services due to geographical layout?

 

Do all these remote schools have a head teacher whether teaching or not?

 

I find it hard to believe that in this day and age and with the available technology remote schools cannot remain open at an affordable cost.

It does seem to be the way of Shetland Island council to cut rather than adapt services. I mean there is not many places down south you could travel 24 miles on a bus during peak hours for  Â£3.

[MuckleJoannie]

Now to the thread school closures. I have a couple of questions.

 

Has alternatives to closing the schools been explored?

 

Does Shetland council not get extra central funding in their budget to provide these remote services due to geographical layout?

 

Do all these remote schools have a head teacher whether teaching or not?

 

 

There have been various alternatives suggested to closure and they have not played out fully yet. One reason for secondary schools being closed is the Scottish governments new Curriculum for Excellence. This means that it makes more sense to have pupils move after 3 years of secondary school, rather than 4 as at present. However doing this means that secondary teachers will not be fully stretched.

 

The SIC may get extra funding beacause of remoteness but as far as I am aware none of this is ring fenced for any purpose. It is up to the SIC to decide how to spend it.

 

As far as I know all schools have a head teacher. Joint heads have been discussed but so far is not thought to be practical.

[brian.smith]

Thanks Joannie
 
I can see the point of the secondary education being centralised its the primary school provision that seems strange. Why have head teachers in the primary schools when it would be far better to utilise the teachers and class room assistants and have say heads floating between four schools perhaps one week a month  surely keeping primary school education local means a far better environment for kids under the age of 11. I don’t know what a head is paid but saving three salaries would seem to be quite a saving to start with.

 

I understand that the Curriculum for Excellence has brought in minimum standards but can the teachers not be more flexible and travel to offer this surely it is cheaper to have the teachers travel than bus all these kids in to Lerwick.

[MuckleJoannie]

Having shared head teachers was tried a few years ago but wasn't a success. I believe there are some teachers who are shared bewteen schools but it doesn't work too well.

[brian.smith]

Oh well must be a solution somewhere keep all the folks happy

[Shasel]

Having shared head teachers was tried a few years ago but wasn't a success. I believe there are some teachers who are shared bewteen schools but it doesn't work too well.

 

Olnafirth is one of the schools with a shared head teacher. It was implemented a few years back under the idea that it would keep the school safe. Interesting to see where it is at now.

[brian.smith]

 

Olnafirth is one of the schools with a shared head teacher. It was implemented a few years back under the idea that it would keep the school safe. Interesting to see where it is at now.

 

I wouldn't have thought there would have been a huge financial benefit unless it became a policy for say schools under a certain amount of pupils

[hjasga]

Head Teacher sharing can make sense in certain circumstances. For example, I think the Baltasound JHS head is also head of Fetlar Primary School, which is sensible both in terms of geography and the size of the schools involved. However, I imagine it would depend heavily on circumstance.

 

There's a lot of sharing in teachers for Baltasound JHS, mostly with Mid Yell but also Brae and even further afield. Again, that seems like an ideal scenario for it and you'd think the only major problems (other than perhaps staff morale) would be timetabling of both the ferries and the schools themselves.