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Military intervention in Syria  

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  1. 1. Should the UK take military action against the Syrian regime

    • Yes
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    • Undecided
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I seem to remember, about 10 years ago. a senior council member told me there was a plan to double Shetlands Population, which would mean a workforce big enough to attract industry and the knock on effects would be increased amenities, such as better transport links etc etc. Also bringing in young people of breeding age would mean a sustainable source of workers to produce income to support the pensions of all the old Shetlanders - we tend to lose our own children to the south because of the lack of lucrative industry caused by the lack of skilled workforce. etc etc.. As can be seen already, almost all our immigrants so far are hard working and create work, and are friendly and on the whole honest, unlike the ..................................................................(now I mustn't be racist as well) You never know there might even be Dentists and Doctors among the refugee/immigrants. Most of us came from the Middle East if you go back a few thousand years.

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"All this is beside the point though, we're not talking about immigrants, these are refugees fleeing a war torn country, we have a moral duty to help our fellow human beings."

 

I would argue that, in many cases, this is wrong..

 

Example;

A family leaves Syria and is given safe refuge in Turkey. That makes them a refugee. The moment they decide to leave Turkey for somewhere else with fewer flies and more opportunities, they become an immigrant and, we no longer have any 'moral'(?) duty to help (if we ever did in the 1st place).

 

"Not only that, it's in our interests to help, what do you think will happen to the few ill equipped countries who are housing millions of refugees, some are worried about radicalism, would these squalid camps not be a breeding ground for it?"

 

So, you want an "ill equipped" country (UK) to take the load off other "ill equipped" countries thereby transferring the radicalism to us ?

 

We already have a couple of well publicised examples of some of "our own"(?) being radicalised and going over there (Syria) to "shoot the place up", create a caliphate and, displace the native population..

 

Never ending circle isn't it..?

 

I'm not unsympathetic to their plight but, short of closing the channel tunnel, is there any way that we can control the numbers once they get into Europe?

The family who have escaped to Turkey are stuck in a refugee camp, they aren't allowed to work legally in that country, they're still refugees.

Turkey and a few other ill equipped countries are having to take the burden of millions of these refugees, not the few thousand the UK are willing to take.

The breeding ground for radicalisation, I would imagine, would be when they are stuck in mass refugee camps like they are now, if a child is brought up in one of these camps with no hope of a better future, how do you think they'll turn out?

If the refugees are dispersed into manageable numbers around the world and intigrated into those countries, would that not help solve the problem?

I agree about the nutcases who want to go to Syria from the UK, thankfully as you say they're few in number, the vast majority of people are like us, just wanting to look after themselves and their family in peace.

Edited by Capeesh
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"The family who have escaped to Turkey are stuck in a refugee camp, they aren't allowed to work legally in that country, they're still refugees."

 

Nor would they be allowed to work legally(?) in most other countries that took them in as refugees but,you have avoided my point which was;

 

Having been awarded refugee status and been given a safe place to stay, if they then decide to move on, they become migrants and that, as far as I am concerned, is where they have to accept some responsibility for themselves.

Also, where ever they ended up, they would still not be able to legally(?) apply for work unless they were legally(?) accepted into that country and issued work permits, citizenship etc.

 

"the vast majority of people are like us, just wanting to look after themselves and their family in peace."

 

Yes, and not wanting to wake up and find that their comfortable(?) environment has been usurped by people of a different nationality, ethnicity and, generally, a whole different mindset(?) and way of living who, for all the wrong(?) PC type reasons, get placed at the top of the housing lists and of every other service that they require.

 

Also, the argument that the refugee population contains doctors, nurses, engineers and others with "professional" qualifications is not valid as, I am sure, very few of them hold such qualifications. 

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I seem to remember, about 10 years ago. a senior council member told me there was a plan to double Shetlands Population, which would mean a workforce big enough to attract industry and the knock on effects would be increased amenities, such as better transport links etc etc. Also bringing in young people of breeding age would mean a sustainable source of workers to produce income to support the pensions of all the old Shetlanders - we tend to lose our own children to the south because of the lack of lucrative industry caused by the lack of skilled workforce. etc etc.. As can be seen already, almost all our immigrants so far are hard working and create work, and are friendly and on the whole honest, unlike the ..................................................................(now I mustn't be racist as well) You never know there might even be Dentists and Doctors among the refugee/immigrants. Most of us came from the Middle East if you go back a few thousand years.

Wasn't that an "edict" issued by the Scottish Government?  I remember thinking at the time that the "airhead" who dreamed that one up completely ignored the logistics of running any kind of competitive business on a "remote" island.

 

As you pointed out, there is a lack of suitable opportunity for our "well educated" youngsters and most, do indeed, head south for better jobs and the "bright city lights".

 

Which would have to come first?  Population or Opportunity?

 

Agree about the local migrants(?).  They seem to have a different "work ethic" and general attitude to most of the locals and, best of luck to them.

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Surely Shetland has to sort its own problems out before it tries to sort other people from other countries out.

 

Housing for own local people, education, health service and infrastructure services. We know our resources are stretched as they are.

If we can offer help to Syrians today why couldn't SIC help the locals yesterday?

 

Who exactly is going to be doing the security checks which will be a major concern to the UK as a whole.

 

How are background checks going to be carried out or is anyone with a criminal record going to be let into the country to carry on their criminal career..

 

Who is going to pay for all the extra security which will have to be stepped up ?

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I'm not unsympathetic to their plight

Reading though your input on this thread I'm not inclined to believe you.

 

A sympathetic person would not use language such as this:

 

The moment they decide to leave Turkey for somewhere else with fewer flies and more opportunities

we no longer have any 'moral'(?) duty to help (if we ever did in the 1st place)

it's almost as if the west was being invaded

refugees(?)

 

 

Martin Niemoller might just as well have said ' Then they came for the refugees, and I did not speak out - ' How do you reconcile your alleged approbation for his writing with the glaring lack of empathy for a different group of desperate and persecuted people which you display on this thread? Or, are you just another poorly informed hypocrite bleating from the comfort of the first world?

 

  

 

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Our housing waiting list is almost entirely for houses in Lerwick and the surrounding areas. There's no shortage in other parts of Shetland. I'm sure Unst would have capacity for many families given its population is about half what it was twenty years ago.

 

Logistically I'm sure there are easier places to get them to, and there would probably be a serious culture shock for refugees in arriving here that may make it an undesirable solution from a humanitarian perspective, but I don't see much wrong with Shetlanders making the offer.

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I'm not unsympathetic to their plight

Reading though your input on this thread I'm not inclined to believe you.

 

A sympathetic person would not use language such as this:

 

The moment they decide to leave Turkey for somewhere else with fewer flies and more opportunities

we no longer have any 'moral'(?) duty to help (if we ever did in the 1st place)

it's almost as if the west was being invaded

refugees(?)

 

 

Martin Niemoller might just as well have said ' Then they came for the refugees, and I did not speak out - ' How do you reconcile your alleged approbation for his writing with the glaring lack of empathy for a different group of desperate and persecuted people which you display on this thread? Or, are you just another poorly informed hypocrite bleating from the comfort of the first world?

 

  

 

 

Believe whatever you want to..  Just don't cherry pick the bits that fit your vision..

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 An idea taken from International Day from a Peppa Pig episode. (NOT TO BE TAKEN TOO SERIOUSLY)

 

To set the scene the countries of Europe are playing in the play park

 

Germany - Is letting anyone come and play in the park always telling others what to do.

 

France    - Is trying to get everyone to play with the UK on the roundabout.

 

UK          - They would like to get off the roundabout but can't because Germany keeps pushing it.

 

Spain      -  Taken it's ball home and shut the gate behind them

 

Greece   -  Everyone wants to play with Greece but Greece doesn't want to play anymore.

 

If anyone wants to play on the climbing frame you have got to get past Hungary first..

 

Meanwhile SIC representing Scotland are busy building as many  sand castles as possible in the boggy bit of the sandpit probably without planning permission for everyone to play with.

Edited by wotsit
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