brian.smith Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 "All this is beside the point though, we're not talking about immigrants, these are refugees fleeing a war torn country, we have a moral duty to help our fellow human beings." I would argue that, in many cases, this is wrong.. Example;A family leaves Syria and is given safe refuge in Turkey. That makes them a refugee. The moment they decide to leave Turkey for somewhere else with fewer flies and more opportunities, they become an immigrant and, we no longer have any 'moral'(?) duty to help (if we ever did in the 1st place). "Not only that, it's in our interests to help, what do you think will happen to the few ill equipped countries who are housing millions of refugees, some are worried about radicalism, would these squalid camps not be a breeding ground for it?" So, you want an "ill equipped" country (UK) to take the load off other "ill equipped" countries thereby transferring the radicalism to us ? We already have a couple of well publicised examples of some of "our own"(?) being radicalised and going over there (Syria) to "shoot the place up", create a caliphate and, displace the native population.. Never ending circle isn't it..? I'm not unsympathetic to their plight but, short of closing the channel tunnel, is there any way that we can control the numbers once they get into Europe? Wrong Colin beieve it or not that status is not lost until the enter the European Economic Area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 "Wrong Colin beieve it or not that status is not lost until the enter the European Economic Area" You sure? I thought that the EEA consisted of all 28 member states. Leaving Turkey for eg Greece (or any other EU member state) would, therefore, change their status.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capeesh Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 ^^Our government also has a clear responsibility for providing protection to refugees under the 1951 UN convention, refugees also have permission to work in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 no Colin the "Dubin agreement" deals with the status of refugees in different parts of europe and the key resposibility is which country they made their caim and were finger printed. The Dubin Agreement has become a bit of a joke in recent year with British immigration courts unwilling to allow refugees to be returned to both Italy and Greece due to the conditions they are held in and the lack of national support which meant they were put on the detained fast track scheme in this counrty which itself has now been decared ilegal refugee status is tested by the situation in the persons own country unless they have status in another country then that status its self would be tested to see if it complied with UNCHR and the Human Rights Act Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 ^^Our government also has a clear responsibility for providing protection to refugees under the 1951 UN convention, refugees also have permission to work in the UK.Capeesh the government has a morale duty but not a legal one unless the person is present in the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotsit Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I understood that a refugee had to claim asylum in the first available country of safety not keep going until they found a country they liked more ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 no Colin the "Dubin agreement" deals with the status of refugees in different parts of europe and the key resposibility is which country they made their caim and were finger printed. The Dubin Agreement has become a bit of a joke in recent year with British immigration courts unwilling to allow refugees to be returned to both Italy and Greece due to the conditions they are held in and the lack of national support which meant they were put on the detained fast track scheme in this counrty which itself has now been decared ilegal refugee status is tested by the situation in the persons own country unless they have status in another country then that status its self would be tested to see if it complied with UNCHR and the Human Rights Act Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I understood that a refugee had to claim asylum in the first available country of safety not keep going until they found a country they liked more ?No but they woud have to give good reason why they did not. One good reason often used is they didnt know where they were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotsit Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Shetland collecting for the refugees and sending it to Calais I thought we had a migrant camp in Calais not a refugee camp, so who will exactly be getting these donations ? Ironwithin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotsit Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Didn't know where they were = load of rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotsit Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 These refugees from Syria are on their way to Germany, so is it the economic migrants receiving local donations then in Calais the very ones we are trying to prevent entering UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwithin Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Shetland collecting for the refugees and sending it to Calais I thought we had a migrant camp in Calais not a refugee camp, so who will exactly be getting these donations ? I was a bit alarmed to hear about people collecting for the people in Calais, as they should be claiming asylum in France. They are economic migrants otherwise. Its totally perverse that they wont stay in France and demand to go to the UK. People should not be giving them anything from the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotsit Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 What do people say about puppy farming, no matter how hard it is do not support or buy a puppy from such places because it makes the situation worse and encourages them to continue and more dogs and puppies will continue to suffer for much longer. These economic migrants in Calais if we support them they will continue to illegally try to get into UK anyway they can, by supporting them giving donations you are actively encouraging people to risk their lives and that of children. I could not support prolonging suffering .and encourage people to illegally travel to UK. On top of people risking their lives and those of children our food lorries are being broken into on a huge scale the food has to be destroyed because the economic migrants have toileted all over inside. The cost is also huge how can we support this and not know exactly who is receiving donations and that just scratch of the surface The price of food will go up if this situation is allowed to continue. Ironwithin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 no Colin the "Dubin agreement" deals with the status of refugees in different parts of europe and the key resposibility is which country they made their caim and were finger printed. The Dubin Agreement has become a bit of a joke in recent year with British immigration courts unwilling to allow refugees to be returned to both Italy and Greece due to the conditions they are held in and the lack of national support which meant they were put on the detained fast track scheme in this counrty which itself has now been decared ilegal refugee status is tested by the situation in the persons own country unless they have status in another country then that status its self would be tested to see if it complied with UNCHR and the Human Rights ActOK, I think I get it but, it doesn't get anywhere close to answering my point.. If a family applies for (and is granted) refugee status in Turkey then, for whatever reason, decide to head for any EU country that makes them "migrants" not refugees. Unless, of course, anyone can demonstrate that being a refugee in a non-EU country automatically qualifies you as being a refugee in the EU. Is this why the people landing in Italy (EU) from North Africa (non EU) are described as migrants and not as refugees.. Ironwithin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotsit Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Surely if they are in a refugee camp in Turkey being looked after with aid and they decide to come to Europe because it's "better" surely they are migrants because they were "safe" Ironwithin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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