Priorities For Policing In Shetland

[Dook]

I may be missing something here, maybe just being over simplistic.

 

Dogs against Drugs,

the Shetland charity,

set up in memory of a Shetland son,

who lost their fight against heroin.

 

This charity is instrumental in causing the heroin problem in Shetland??????

 

Absolute rubbish. The charity was set up well after heroin had landed in Shetland and the only people who think different have something to hide or something to gain.

 

The handlers and dogs spend more time in the schools, educating the young and preventing others falling foul of a path of pain than any police officer or health worker. I would suggest their actions prevent a lot more people from becoming addicted than any expensive rehabilitation treatment can "rehabilitate". Does anyone ask the Betty Ford Clinic for famous cures? No way, because the next day the named individuals would be pictured hoovering coke up their noses. Epic fail. How would they get their client list and funding then?

 

Instead of apportioning blame on a dog, how about we just take responsibility and do our best to rid Shetland of anything or anyone who causes so much pain.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Dook

[JustMe]

I do not "do" drugs and never have but I must admit that if I did the sight of a drugs dog on the linkspan at Holmsgarth greeting foot passengers coming off the ferry would make me think long and hard before carrying any with me on the ferry.

 

But on the other hand it is maybe not such a good advert for Shetland (maybe we do not need to worry if the tourists are already here) and as a pedestrian with militant tendencies I wonder if this discriminates against foot passengers or are cars and trucks checked in other ways?.

[Clooty Cap]

I may be missing something here, maybe just being over simplistic.

Dogs against Drugs,

the Shetland charity,

set up in memory of a Shetland son,

who lost their fight against heroin.

This charity is instrumental in causing the heroin problem in Shetland??????

Absolute rubbish. The charity was set up well after heroin had landed in Shetland and the only people who think different have something to hide or something to gain.

The handlers and dogs spend more time in the schools, educating the young and preventing others falling foul of a path of pain than any police officer or health worker. I would suggest their actions prevent a lot more people from becoming addicted than any expensive rehabilitation treatment can "rehabilitate". Does anyone ask the Betty Ford Clinic for famous cures? No way, because the next day the named individuals would be pictured hoovering coke up their noses. Epic fail. How would they get their client list and funding then?

Instead of apportioning blame on a dog, how about we just take responsibility and do our best to rid Shetland of anything or anyone who causes so much pain.

First of all, I don't think anyone is saying that the drugs dog charity has been instrumental in causing the heroin problem in Shetland, so yes that statement would be absolute rubbish, what has been discussed is the possibility that since the drugs dog started operating in Shetland, that there appears to be an increase in heroin use that could be caused by a shortage of your so called softer drug.

 

The drugs dogs may be spending a lot of time in schools educating youngsters to the dangers of drugs but there are still plenty of school leavers deciding that despite what they've been warned about drug use, they want to find out in person what the attraction is.

 

I found this article about heroin use in Shetland, it's from a magazine called Druglink, Sept-Oct 2010. Here's an interesting quote from it,

 

http://www.drugscope.org.uk/Resources/Drugscope/Documents/PDF/Publications/DruglinkSept-Oct2010.pdf

 

"Figures from community alcohol and Drug services shetland (caDss), the isles’ main treatment agency, highlight the extent of heroin’s penetration. in 2001, caDss treated a small pocket of heroin users, around three-quarters of whom were incomers from elsewhere. nine years on, around 70-80 per cent of its heroin-using clients have been born or brought up in shetland.

contrary to sensationalist headlines slamming shetland for having ‘scotland’s worst heroin problem’, the numbers are relatively low. caDss now treats around 100 heroin users, a fraction of most urban caseloads. Yet worryingly, while treatment agencies across britain are witnessing an ageing heroin-using population, shetland is bucking the

trend. under-25s now account for around half of caDss drug treatment clients, compared to a quarter in 2006."

 

These stats from the community alcohol and Drugs services shetland would suggest that up to 2010 there has been an increase in heroin use and that it has predominantly in the under 25s. In fact nearly every stat in this article would suggest that young heroin users have increased throughout the period the drugs dog have been in use. So maybe the education needs to be worked on.

[Dook]

Thats great.

 

However, your unproven theory re softer drugs being unavailable also flies in the face of the recent boom in synthetic highs. Hospitalisations or worse galore. Is this due to the harder drugs now being unavailable due to the dogs? Shall we aportion blame to one specific charity? For what reason?

 

Social trends I would suggest is a bigger reason. My father smoked cigarettes, my children never will. I got married after courting face to face my grandkids will probably become fathers over the Internet.

 

Shetland is a very drug dependant population whether alcohol, heroin, synthetic or softer drug. Is there such a thing as a softer drug? Name one soft drug.

[Evil Inky]

 

. Is there such a thing as a softer drug? Name one soft drug.

 

Are you suggesting that drugs don't vary in the level of (potential) danger they pose, and that drinking a pint of beer, or smoking a joint is roughly equivalent to taking crystal meth or PCP?

[Clooty Cap]

Thats great.

However, your unproven theory re softer drugs being unavailable also flies in the face of the recent boom in synthetic highs. Hospitalisations or worse galore. Is this due to the harder drugs now being unavailable due to the dogs? Shall we aportion blame to one specific charity? For what reason?

Social trends I would suggest is a bigger reason. My father smoked cigarettes, my children never will. I got married after courting face to face my grandkids will probably become fathers over the Internet.

Shetland is a very drug dependant population whether alcohol, heroin, synthetic or softer drug. Is there such a thing as a softer drug? Name one soft drug.

My unproven theory about heroin use increasing at times when softer drugs are in short supply would appear to be backed up by the then head of the CADSS Gill Hession, if you read the article you might have seen this. As for the boom in synthetic highs, I would assume the boom in the usage of these products is mostly down to the legality issue and the presumption that they are safe since they can be purchased over the internet. This won't have any affect on heroin usage though, unless over the same time the supply of heroin into the isle was cut off.

 

Shetland does seem to be the kind of place that has a tendency to encourage substance, once again this is touched on in the link I posted earlier.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Clooty Cap

[orcainn]

 

I may be missing something here, maybe just being over simplistic.

Dogs against Drugs,

the Shetland charity,

set up in memory of a Shetland son,

who lost their fight against heroin.

This charity is instrumental in causing the heroin problem in Shetland??????

Absolute rubbish. The charity was set up well after heroin had landed in Shetland and the only people who think different have something to hide or something to gain.

The handlers and dogs spend more time in the schools, educating the young and preventing others falling foul of a path of pain than any police officer or health worker. I would suggest their actions prevent a lot more people from becoming addicted than any expensive rehabilitation treatment can "rehabilitate". Does anyone ask the Betty Ford Clinic for famous cures? No way, because the next day the named individuals would be pictured hoovering coke up their noses. Epic fail. How would they get their client list and funding then?

Instead of apportioning blame on a dog, how about we just take responsibility and do our best to rid Shetland of anything or anyone who causes so much pain.

First of all, I don't think anyone is saying that the drugs dog charity has been instrumental in causing the heroin problem in Shetland, so yes that statement would be absolute rubbish, what has been discussed is the possibility that since the drugs dog started operating in Shetland, that there appears to be an increase in heroin use that could be caused by a shortage of your so called softer drug.

 

The drugs dogs may be spending a lot of time in schools educating youngsters to the dangers of drugs but there are still plenty of school leavers deciding that despite what they've been warned about drug use, they want to find out in person what the attraction is.

 

I found this article about heroin use in Shetland, it's from a magazine called Druglink, Sept-Oct 2010. Here's an interesting quote from it,

 

http://www.drugscope.org.uk/Resources/Drugscope/Documents/PDF/Publications/DruglinkSept-Oct2010.pdf

 

"Figures from community alcohol and Drug services shetland (caDss), the isles’ main treatment agency, highlight the extent of heroin’s penetration. in 2001, caDss treated a small pocket of heroin users, around three-quarters of whom were incomers from elsewhere. nine years on, around 70-80 per cent of its heroin-using clients have been born or brought up in shetland.

contrary to sensationalist headlines slamming shetland for having ‘scotland’s worst heroin problem’, the numbers are relatively low. caDss now treats around 100 heroin users, a fraction of most urban caseloads. Yet worryingly, while treatment agencies across britain are witnessing an ageing heroin-using population, shetland is bucking the

trend. under-25s now account for around half of caDss drug treatment clients, compared to a quarter in 2006."

 

These stats from the community alcohol and Drugs services shetland would suggest that up to 2010 there has been an increase in heroin use and that it has predominantly in the under 25s. In fact nearly every stat in this article would suggest that young heroin users have increased throughout the period the drugs dog have been in use. So maybe the education needs to be worked on.

 

As I left CADSS on Monday and had worked as a substance misuse worker for 4 years I can assure you that things are very different in 2013.  I am not aware of any 'new' users coming into service in the last year and the under 25s are now over 25s.  Heroin is still used in Shetland but the whole scene has changed and more people are on substitute prescribing which takes the chaos out of users lives and improves the chances of accessing the services that lead to recovery.  I spent 4 years working with drugs and alcohol clients and sharing their journeys so I do know what I am talking about.

[Clooty Cap]

As I left CADSS on Monday and had worked as a substance misuse worker for 4 years I can assure you that things are very different in 2013.  I am not aware of any 'new' users coming into service in the last year and the under 25s are now over 25s.  Heroin is still used in Shetland but the whole scene has changed and more people are on substitute prescribing which takes the chaos out of users lives and improves the chances of accessing the services that lead to recovery.  I spent 4 years working with drugs and alcohol clients and sharing their journeys so I do know what I am talking about.

its good that the trend seems to have been changed as the stats I posted up for 2010 were a bit of a shock.

[Ghostrider]

My father smoked cigarettes, my children never will.

 

That's some crystal ball you have there, any chance of PM'ing me tonight's lottery numbers while you're at it.

 

Shetland is a very drug dependant population whether alcohol, heroin, synthetic or softer drug. Is there such a thing as a softer drug? Name one soft drug.

 

Citation?

 

A rather libellous statement as it stands.

[Dook]

 

. Is there such a thing as a softer drug? Name one soft drug.

 

 

Are you suggesting that drugs don't vary in the level of (potential) danger they pose, and that drinking a pint of beer, or smoking a joint is roughly equivalent to taking crystal meth or PCP?

The personal effects may be different however what about human cost.

 

A joint? Most of the herbal cannabis available in Scotland comes from crime groups and many are triad based. Ask the male of the Asian family who has been secreted in a loft for years being fed basics at harvest time under fear of either he or his family dying. Or his wife or daughters in brothels. Pretty sure that wasn't the life they were promised.

 

Better still. If we don't want to look at the trafficking aspect look closer to home.

 

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-18826528

 

This is a boy in the north of Scotland. Abducted and taken to Portugal. Parts cut off him. Real reservoir dogs stuff. All related to cannabis.

 

So no, I don't see any difference and I certainly wouldn't class anything as soft.

[Dook]

 

My father smoked cigarettes, my children never will.

 

 

That's some crystal ball you have there, any chance of PM'ing me tonight's lottery numbers while you're at it.

 

Shetland is a very drug dependant population whether alcohol, heroin, synthetic or softer drug. Is there such a thing as a softer drug? Name one soft drug.

 

 

Citation?

 

A rather libellous statement as it stands.

Why libellous?

 

It's an opinion and certainly not intended to defame any individual. Reference the lottery prediction, try

 

4, 7, 23, 25, 36, 39, and 42.

 

I'd rather give my money to Shetland charities where I know it will make a difference but each to there own.

[Ghostrider]

^ You've just defamed the entire Shetland population by stating they are "very drug dependent", ie. significantly higher than average, without offering any form of proof of the validity of the statement.

 

If you intended it as your personal opinion only, you need to say so. As written that reads as a statement of fact.

[Dook]

 

Without them, how much would the Police cost to cover these areas?

 

If the Police weren't so heavily burdened with trying to enforce IMHO un-necessary (unjustifiable/illegal?) and pointless/ineffectual laws and could concentrate on the rest which do maybe protect folk's right and make for a better quality of life, their current budget would cover it with ease.

Fact or opinion?

 

I'd say it's an opinion for the following reasons

 

It is not identifying an individual

It's on a public forum actively encouraging personal opinion

It's not misquoting fact at the detriment of the individual.

 

A libellous comment would be

 

"17 out of 20 chimpanzees enjoyed a night of passion with ghostrider. The other 3 complained as they hadn't even been texted since"

 

But since this is obviously an example, not true and now spoken as such, it's back to non libellous.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Dook

[Clooty Cap]

 

 

. Is there such a thing as a softer drug? Name one soft drug.

 

Are you suggesting that drugs don't vary in the level of (potential) danger they pose, and that drinking a pint of beer, or smoking a joint is roughly equivalent to taking crystal meth or PCP?

The personal effects may be different however what about human cost.

A joint? Most of the herbal cannabis available in Scotland comes from crime groups and many are triad based. Ask the male of the Asian family who has been secreted in a loft for years being fed basics at harvest time under fear of either he or his family dying. Or his wife or daughters in brothels. Pretty sure that wasn't the life they were promised.

Better still. If we don't want to look at the trafficking aspect look closer to home.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-18826528

This is a boy in the north of Scotland. Abducted and taken to Portugal. Parts cut off him. Real reservoir dogs stuff. All related to cannabis.

So no, I don't see any difference and I certainly wouldn't class anything as soft.

Wherever there is potential to make money, there is potential for people to be exploited. Whether it be in the drugs trade, sex industries, precious metals and precious stones or even clothes and textiles industries. The human costs you list as being associated with cannabis manufacture by drug gangs are terrible but why do you think there are gangs doing this? Probably because your average cannabis user doesn't want to risk growing it for themselves because of the fact it's illegal.

[Ghostrider]

 

 

Without them, how much would the Police cost to cover these areas?

If the Police weren't so heavily burdened with trying to enforce IMHO un-necessary (unjustifiable/illegal?) and pointless/ineffectual laws and could concentrate on the rest which do maybe protect folk's right and make for a better quality of life, their current budget would cover it with ease.

Fact or opinion?

 

I'd say it's an opinion for the following reasons

 

It is not identifying an individual

It's on a public forum actively encouraging personal opinion

It's not misquoting fact at the detriment of the individual.

 

A libellous comment would be

 

"17 out of 20 chimpanzees enjoyed a night of passion with ghostrider. The other 3 complained as they hadn't even been texted since"

 

But since this is obviously an example, not true and now spoken as such, it's back to non libellous.

 

 

Libel (noun) - Law:

 

a) Defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.

 

b ) The act or crime of publishing it.

 

c) A formal written declaration or statement, as one containing the allegations of a plaintiff or the grounds of a charge.

 

2. Anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libel

 

No problem with the chimps, as long as all twenty are female.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Ghostrider