Currency Union?

[Who Knows]

Lots of people looking for information on a variety of issues.

 

You can though find answers to most of the question posed here from both sides of the argument

 

The case as presented by the Yes side including the 659 page White Paper can be found here

 

http://www.scotreferendum.com/reports/scotlands-future-your-guide-to-an-independent-scotland/

 

The official UK Governments as laid out in their official Whitehall produced analysis of the issues

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/scotland-analysis

 

The Yes meeting in Burra Hall is reported on-line on both the Shetland Times and Shetland News websites as a public meeting with all no, yes or do not knows welcome to discuss the issues. As the polls currently have No in front the Yes side needs to shift public opinion and convice people "to think again" to move their vote.

 

In terms of who can become a citizen of the Independent Scotland is outlined here:

 

http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future

 

If Scotland does vote Yes all current Citizens of Britian living in Scotland will retain their British Citizenship unless they choose to renounce the right.

 

http://archive.is/m52ex

 

Therefore those worrying about Scotland being kicked out of Europe you dual British citizenship will retain your EU rights to free movement if you so wished.

 

The NHS in Scotland is a separate legal entity and always has been since it's creation in 1948. However Shetland before the creation of the NHS benefited from the Highland and Island Medical Scheme that Sir John Dewar created in 1913 and in this led to publicly funded consultant surgeon in Shetland in 1934. This Scottish creation was part of the evidence and argument for the creation of the NHS in 1948.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highlands_and_Islands_Medical_Service

 

The NHS in the 4 countries of the UK is run on completely different models of clinical delivery and administration. However there is currently "free" to the patient cross border arrangements for care provided for emergency care admissions or specialist treatments. This is unlikely to change and if both Scotland and the rUK remain in the European Union this is guaranteed to occur under EU rules.

 

Part of the allocated costs in the Expenditure in Scotland figure includes Scotland's share of the UK civil service in London, Swansea, Newcastle, East Kilbride and other numerous locations through the isles. Thus there is a budget already available to fund this. The main difference unless they out source Driving Licence to the DVLA they will all be based in Scotland so will be directly adding value to the Scottish Economy rather just an allocation.

 

Politician have time limited ability to change and shape policy some leave lasting legacy such as Jo Grimmond, Anuern Bevan, Winston Churchill or Ted Heath. To measure the future of Scotland based upon personality of Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon is a distraction from real issues that will shape Scotland's future whether that is inside the UK or a separate independent state. As previously state 2016 will be the election to the first Parliament.

 

Colin the link below to an article in the Shetland Times about the 1979 referendum but specific to that vote and a few other sites.

 

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2008/12/31/home-rule-talks/

http://scottishreferendumexperience.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/orkney-and-shetland-deja-vu/

 

The Darian project is the often misquoted piece of history that Scotland was broke. This was actually funded by individuals rather than the state. The ironic issue with regards to the Bank of England it was the same person who created the Bank of England following the union.

 

Lastly both the UK and the other members of the EU are members of the United Nations which is founded on the democratic principle of recognising the right of people to seek self determination via the ballot box and not obstruct this process.

 

http://www.eu-un.europa.eu/articles/en/article_6499_en.htm

Edited February 19, 2014 by Who Knows

[owre-weel]

Thanks Who Knows, you have provided a great deal of useful information and lots of reading.

[Rasmie]

A lot of what has been written above is only valid at a certain point in time and under certain circumstances and is a mainly  opinion. 

The UK as it currently stands will also disappear and will have to re-invent itself .  Maybe even leave the EU? Other countries can change, Governments can change, laws can be amended, hopefully with the approval of their citizens. The British passport as we know it will almost certainly disappear. It will probably be replaced by the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland passport. 

[Who Knows]

The Alienation Act of 1705 passed by Westminster is consider to have influence the noble members of the Scottish Parliament. A short outline of the act is on the UK parliament official website

 

http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/legislativescrutiny/act-of-union-1707/overview/westminster-passes-the-alien-act-1705/

 

In short there was a straight forward choice form a full incorporating union or alternatively ban all Scottish imports and reserve the right to repose any property held by Scots nobles in England.

 

That was probably a clear economic choice for the noble members of the Scottish Parliament some of whom would have suffered financial losses via the Darien Project.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

 

How the Union may of started is of historic interest and may clarify some myths but the world today 307 years after the union is a different world.

 

The choice on offer later this year may be essentially the same option about a union yes/no the circumstances regarding the consequence of the out-turn are not the same and hopefully mutual respect will prevail on all sides.

 

The current UK Government state that in the event of Scotland opting out by voting Yes that the UK minus Scotland will continue on as the successor state in international law and inherit all the treaty obligations and rights the UK currently holds.

 

UK has no formal written constitution and it is widely acknowledge that future elected Governments of the UK cannot be bound by previous decisions and our current Prime Minister stated that was in deed the case in the dispute over the future of the Barnett Formula. So there are no guarantees.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/barnett-formula-would-remain-after-no-vote-1-3238320

 

Eligibility to citizenship the UK currently uses is based upon the principles laid out by the United Nations. The primary exception to that covers the Republic of Ireland as the act that acknowledged their right for self determination stated they would not be considered foreigners.

 

Access to healthcare in the UK is wider than just the EU and the citizen advice group have attempted to explain eligibility to this

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/healthcare_e/healthcare_help_with_health_costs_e/nhs_charges_for_people_from_abroad.htm

 

The possible alternative to the EU is the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) which comprises Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein and all though not in the EU can still trade in to the EU free trade area.

 

http://www.efta.int/about-efta

[JohanofNess]

 

Now, what I really want is for someone to take the lead and propose that "if Scotland votes Yes then Shetland should immediately apply for Crown Dependency status"  Not only would that set the cat amongst the pigeons but, I suspect that Westminster would grab it with both hands (unless, of course, thay have already engaged in some kind of sell-out).

I also seem to (vaguely) remember the late Jo Grimmond extracting a ruling from Westminster that, If Scotland became independent then, Shetland & Orkney would remain with Westminster.  Anybody want to enlighten me?

 

 

What happens if in the referendum Shetland has a majority vote for independence?. I'm thinking that an overall yes vote is hard cheese to everyone that voted no even if distinct areas voted against.  What is to stop other parts of Scotland who overall didn't vote for independence for instance Dundee saying we didn't ask for this count us out?.

 

I'm not inclined to vote yes anyway, mainly because I don't agree with breaking up the union and I see no real issue with the status quo. What worries me greatly is how all these issues with currency, eu status, portion of the debt, military etc are still being argued about (not agreed round the table) so we as a country don't know the actual status of the issues when we vote. For the half way intelligent they are going to have some concerns voting yes with none of these issues being resolved beforehand, the Braveheart free Scotland brigade will no doubt vote yes regardless but it's a decision that can't be taken lightly and for our future and the sake of those that come after us we need to know what we will and won't have. I for one would be furious if the things that the SNP are promising come to nothing after a yes vote.

[Rasmie]

I find it disconcerting that the Nats Leader is unable/unwilling to come up with an alternative plan should Currency Union fail. Scotland will need overdraft facilities if it is to initially pay for services e.g. health, education, policing etc so it is important they have cast iron finance plan with backup. Sound like Alex is just winging it? He needs to convince us he is not going to simply crash our economy

[JohanofNess]

Plan B is we have our own currency or we join the euro, I don't know how far the yes campaign has looked into this and if they'll let us know before September how we'd go about it.

 

The other thing is Alex in his fervour to demonstrate that we can join the EU is essentially saying to anyone that doesn't want to be in the EU that voting for independence is probably not for them. That's not to say that we can't have a referendum on EU membership after the independence referendum but I just don't see that happening.

[brian.smith]

Having read all the posts here I have one question. What has the union given us of late

[Colin]

Having read all the posts here I have one question. What has the union given us of late

Yeah, and what did the romans ever do for us.....

[brian.smith]

I dunno Im not that old

[shetlandpeat]

The Romans gave Shetland the title "Ultima Thule" or similar. Hence tha pub.

Edited February 21, 2014 by shetlandpeat

[Colin]

I was thinking more on the lines of Hadrians Wall.....

[shetlandpeat]

The one in England?

 

Antonine Wall is in Scotland, not been there though.

 

The military side is an interesting concept, many of the finest soldiers have come from the Scottish camps, would Scotland keep and pay for these, or could they be leased to the remaining UK?

[Who Knows]

Caledonia was the Roman name for Scotland.

 

Back on topic to the query of the alternative currency as previously mentioned the Scottish Government commissioned a group off respected and eminent Economic experts to review the options and propose the best solution. This group was called the Fiscal Commission and their report is publicly available.

 

Currency analysis

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00414366.pdf.

 

Full Report

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00414291.pdf

 

A £sterling monetary union was the preferred option but there are 3 alternative options examined in the paper that are viable working solutions. As with most things all 4 have both strengths and weakness in their respective cases.

 

The Governor of the Bank of England has confirmed a currency union can work but it requires a political will on both sides to work. At present we do not have that.

 

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/speeches/2014/speech706.pdf

[Rasmie]

It looks like the discussion is becoming irrelevant as Alec Salmond's refusal to accept he may be wrong on currency and EU membership is losing votes rapidly if you go by the polls.