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Moonie's Wake doorman seriously assaulted


sludgegulper
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In a small community like Shetland if you try to stand up to these people them and their mates are out to get you every chance they can. Especially when you have to wait for a year for a case to get to court. I have had an individuals mates try and intimidate me into not giveing evidence against him and spend the whole time every time I was out looking over my shoulder and not being on my own. It can be quite intimidateing. I didnt give in. But still to this day have to be wary when I see certain individuals and stay out of their way. The whole system does not work to protect the victim.

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I have a degree of sympathy for those who want "alternative" action.

 

While I understand this sentiment, and I'm sure have also harboured similar emotions in the past - no good ever comes of this type of reasoning!

 

... sooner or later as much harm as good comes of it.

 

Exactly! We would be submiting ourselves back down our sociatal evolutionary tree to Thomas Lockes' "Native State"!

 

[sarcasm]

While you're out there revenging your own distinct form of vengence - What about the guy down at the end of the street? He looks a bit funny!! Why not go and beat him up and burn his house for good measure while you're at it!!

[/sarcasm]

 

...sit there and moan, report these things to the police,

 

People need to assist those that uphold the laws of our land. If you feel they're not doing a good job ... point it out "constructively", with evidence! Assist them and each other to uphold community values .. before they are lost to vigilante gangs of maurauding idiots trying to protect their "vision of society", and being no better than those they are complaining about!!

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OK, so perhaps you are all right. We don't want the streets full of vigilantes. Its probably best to do nothing at all.

 

Let's wait until there is a death, or perhaps two or even three. Or perhaps the raping of a small village.

 

This new idea makes so much more sense than wading in there early (or more accurately - late).

 

Lets leave it to the system that serves us so well. A system so effective that it prevents people getting beaten up in the street (or not).

 

I am sorry if my argument is unconvincing :oops:

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Im all for vigilantes in some regards. I think the police are as frustrated as some people as they have had to deal with the same people the whole time as they never seem to get a severe punishment. They have said to friends of mine years back to get one individual up a back lane on his own and teach him a lesson, as they knew otherwise the person would get away with it and were fed up dealing with them.

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Parts of Northern Ireland are run by vigilantes. It recently (last few years) led to a guy getting crucified. Not good :(

 

If victims/witnesses aren't coming forward then there is either something wrong with the law or the way the police are enforcing it. In general I think the police do a hard job well, I reckon the law/legal system is to blame. Here's hoping it works in this case and the w@nkers get locked up. Bail suggests it isn't working so far :(

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If victims/witnesses aren't coming forward then there is either something wrong with the law or the way the police are enforcing it. In general I think the police do a hard job well, I reckon the law/legal system is to blame. Here's hoping it works in this case and the w@nkers get locked up. Bail suggests it isn't working so far :(

 

Absolutely spot on there junior.

 

I wondered how different things would be if the person getting beaten was closely related to the legal establishment. They might suddenly see sense.

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Sorry to veer off the vigilante theme but going back to an earlier post I made that was (quite rightly) edited by the moderator about the mother and her 2 sons being some relation to an 'Ice Cream Van Guy'. These give some the story of what her husband has been up since selling his ice cream van and moving south:

 

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/5040638.shtml

 

and

 

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17042173&method=full&siteid=64736&headline=-pound-16m-crooks-hit-where-it-hurts--in-the-assets--name_page.html

 

As I said - Nice family!

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Im all for vigilantes in some regards. I think the police are as frustrated as some people as they have had to deal with the same people the whole time as they never seem to get a severe punishment. They have said to friends of mine years back to get one individual up a back lane on his own and teach him a lesson, as they knew otherwise the person would get away with it and were fed up dealing with them.

 

I agree the police must be frustrated but I think we ought to consider that word "punishment" a bit more. Surely the one thing above all else that is wrong with our justice system is that crime = punishment. And as we see the same people in court sometimes almost every week perhaps we should consider that punishment does not work and have more thoughts about rehabilitation. I missed the tv programme about Eddie Jordan (Jordan Grand Prix team as was) doing work to turn young joyriders into mechanics or the like but it sounded better than just increasing the time in custody every time they got caught.

 

I also seem to remember someone........Tony Blair?.......coming up with the slogan "tough on crime--tough on the causes of crime". Just how much work has been done to identify the causes of crime. And to do something about those causes?.

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we should consider that punishment does not work and have more thoughts about rehabilitation.

 

The problem with rehabilitation is that most criminals don't want to be rehabilitated. Some people assume criminals actually want to live a 'better' life - like the lives we live ourselves. Some people say it's just things like poverty and ignorance that get in the way. But that's just an argument derived from a class-war stereotype. There's just as many thuggish middle and upper class people than there are thuggish poor people.

 

A minority of lost souls want rehabilitation, sure. But unfortunately society is plagued by a thuggish element that doesn't want to be polite and considerate to others. These people need to be controlled somehow.

 

You can write endless thesis why these sort of people exist, and try and 'understand' them until you're blue in the face. But there's a million different reasons why some people turn out thuggish. Even if you could learn all these stories it probably wouldn't help all that much in trying to find some solution to these behavioural problems.

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I dont think a lot of these people can be rehabilitated no matter how much help you give them they will throw it back in your face.

 

Im all for more community work for none seriouse crimes. But make it actual hard work, instead of just painting a wall etc. For example I was told that criminals doing community service would not pick rubbish off Shetlands beaches as they didnt like being out in bad weather etc and would not turn up. This would ruin the targets and cause hassel so they were given easy jobs they would do to give everyone an easy life!

 

I think they could put people in jails for shorter periods if they made the jails hell on earth so that it scared the crap out of anyone going back. As people I knbow who have been have said it was ok but so boreing.

 

Surley killers should also have their human rights stripped from them and have no recorse to any privelages the rest of us have. They should be locked away in a dark room on their own for ever. With no human contact and only their cells 4 walls to look at.

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Styles wrote

Surley killers should also have their human rights stripped from them and have no recorse to any privelages the rest of us have. They should be locked away in a dark room on their own for ever. With no human contact and only their cells 4 walls to look at.

 

First thing I have against that has to be the main reason I am against capital punishment........a verdict of guilty from a jury only says that the guilt is proved beyond all reasonable doubt. Fo so long as there is any doubt I am against the death penalty and for the very same reason.....that people have been found not guilty after years in prison......I am against any thoughts of harsher treatment in prison.

 

I am also concerned in a more general way about all people having feelings. Take the notorious offenders X,Y, and Z who caused so much misery in the town. They were all bouncing babies......probably their parents loved them, relatives loved them, the kids had feelings of their own.......probably a bit behind the times to imagine one wanted to be a train driver, one a fireman and one to be skipper of the Altaire.....but they all would have had hopes for the future. Something went wrong and if society spends a lot more time considering how people go astray then perhaps we will have a better world.

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In a small community like Shetland if you try to stand up to these people them and their mates are out to get you every chance they can. Especially when you have to wait for a year for a case to get to court. I have had an individuals mates try and intimidate me into not giveing evidence against him and spend the whole time every time I was out looking over my shoulder and not being on my own. It can be quite intimidateing. I didnt give in. But still to this day have to be wary when I see certain individuals and stay out of their way. The whole system does not work to protect the victim.

 

i totaly agree with you - i would be out of my mind if i had to take the stand - iv see 1st hand what these people would to to get you back, the only think is to catch them red handed or a big group of people to witness them doing things. i know of some of this well known of the younger 'thugs' - not all from lerwick too! who just go about bashing people for a laugh, thus i keep well away from the street on my own and at closing time, unless im in a middle of a crowd. im all for CCTV even if it moves it somewhere else at least the main street and the taxi rank would be safer

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Guest Anonymous

with the advances of dna to identify criminals it is now certain when aomeone is found guilty of a crime , especially with child sex killers & psychopaths and for this type of offenders death is an extremely just punishment.

If you have a dog that tears a bairns or anybody's face for no apparent reason, you have it put down, it simply cana be trusted.

the same applies to humans dats nature is proven to be extremely wrong

ANY WAY BACK TO THESE turdehouses dat nearly killed blacky we know they did it, they were seen , a public flogging, followed by 10 years hard labour breaking rock with no prospect of early release and a diet they can just survive on should do it. ( thats 12 hours a day rockbreaking not 8)

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Guest Anonymous

I think you have a bit of a distorted view of the world just me.

everything is not soft and fluffy and everybody isna going to be nice if

you talk to them about there feelings and try to say something to make them feel better,

we live on a very civilised group of islands in a fairly civilised country and even here people are being robbed,shot,stabbed, raped and beat within an inch of there lives on a regular basis.

and this is paradise compared to most of the rest of the world!!

you need punishments to fit the crimes to keep it a decent place for the good folk.

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