fionajohn Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 in america there is a charge of jay walking simple drivers obey rules how about pedestrians obeying rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 .....there are typically two people a year getting injured, every year. A reduced speed limit is something that could improve that. Injury accidents won’t be eliminated, but numbers could be reduced. With such a small average "problem", there's an immense amount riding on those two "coulds". Certainly reduced speed *could* prevent an accident occuring, or at least *could* lessen the seriousness of the outcome of one, but by the same token *could* contribute to others happening, and its going to take at least a decade to accumulate adequate data to prove one way or the other whether it really is a net benefit, or a complete waste of time and money, or, hopefully not, an actual worsening. I would take the attitude that when attempting such "fine tuning" as this, *could* isn't a good enough a reason to change, only *will* is. So is saving a half a minute or so going around da toon inside my warm cosy ton of steel a good enough reason to knock down the occasional pedestrian – even if it is their fault? I think not. Ah, but its not just about losing half a minute while driving around, is it. Reduced speed increases the risk and extent of congestion, which in turn increases the risk and extent of those attempting to join the traffic flow having to wait longer periods to do so. Being trapped in a line of slow moving traffic or attempting and failing to join a solid traffic flow both increase the risk of drivers becoming frustrated and irritated, drivers of excessively slow moving traffic and frustrated and irritated drivers are at greater risk of paying less attention, acting impulsively or rashly, which in turn increases the risk of accidents. I would argue that this is most likely to be at best a very expensive chair shuffling exercise, as while the proposed changes *could* prevent some accidents of the type previously seen, the consequences of the changes plus the increased risk of some making use of the proposed infrastructure changes for things other than intended *could* in and of themselves cause accidents that simply could not happen in the present, and result in neither net gain or loss at the end of the day. If it is realistic to expect to lessen the accident rate from its arguably quite low figure, I would argue its not legislation that should be used as the sensible way to achieve it, but driver education in defensive driving. Accidents for the most part occur for one of two reasons, either the pedestrian or car driver is not paying adequate attention, or, the car driver is attempting to drive in a manner that they are incapable of doing. Educating pedestrians that every vehicle on the road is out to mow the legs out under them, and educating drivers that every pedestrian will step out in front of you at the last possible moment and to drive accordingly, and that neither party should ever forget that fact at any time. IMHO would go far, far further in reducing accidents than any "traffic calming measures" or legislation. Muppet and Colin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Biggest problem on the Esplanade is the 'off road' parking particularly outside the Thule and Clydesdale Bank. I don't bother counting any more the number of drivers who reverse their vehicles into the flow of traffic causing not a little alarm and inconvenience.Reducing speeds 'might' help this but, all that will do is legislate in favour of bad driving. Another cause for concern is the use of the bus stance for 'undertaking' (no pun intended) by impatient drivers who just cannot wait for the car in front to turn off the road and park at the Thule/Clydesdale. Both instances, imho, deserve a talking to (at least) from the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 in america there is a charge of jay walking simple drivers obey rules how about pedestrians obeying rulesJaywalking: How the car industry outlawed crossing the roadhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26073797 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rissenin Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Having learned to drive in Shetland at, before moving south at 18 and driving in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Falkirk for the past 6 months, i would not argue against a 20mph speed limit between the church road roundabout and the Roundabout outside Baroc/Golden coach.I spent countless nights 'runnin aboot da toon' and see absolutely no need for people to be doing 30mph in an area where so much traffic is leaving and entering the road, past the bus stop and with the amount of pedestrians crossing, especially at the cross-road o da street at the foot of church road. However, find Will's argument unfounded, biased, and more just a case of him being a bit scunnert we a loud exhaust echoing up church road while he's purlin aboot we his expensive canoe. aidank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rissenin Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Also, how does erecting (at the very most) 8 sign posts cost between 100 and 150 thousand pounds? Who estimated this and what was this estimate based on, the signs being made of solid gold?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's the SIC.... Gold plated at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Looking at the documents supplied about the work for the 20 mph zones, it looks on par with similar schemes elsewhere. Alas, it is not just a case of installing 8 signs, a simplistic view aimed to dumb down the thread. Perhaps liiking at the documents will enhance the knowledge that seems to be lacking somewhat. It also appears that the Lerwick Community Council enquired about Zebra Crossings. Edited March 17, 2014 by shetlandpeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Also, how does erecting (at the very most) 8 sign posts cost between 100 and 150 thousand pounds? Who estimated this and what was this estimate based on, the signs being made of solid gold?! Admin, its the bloody Admin. What appears on the road itself needn't cost more than a few thousand tops, but by the time you've sacrificed a detectable and worrying portion of rainforest and other natural resources producing reams of "documentation", copying it in its entireity quadruple to every individual in every council department, Councillor and beyond that might just have the remotest connection to it, the materials and wages bill for so much paper shuffling is eye watering. norfilm and paulb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Also, how does erecting (at the very most) 8 sign posts cost between 100 and 150 thousand pounds? Who estimated this and what was this estimate based on, the signs being made of solid gold?! Admin, its the bloody Admin. What appears on the road itself needn't cost more than a few thousand tops, but by the time you've sacrificed a detectable and worrying portion of rainforest and other natural resources producing reams of "documentation", copying it in its entireity quadruple to every individual in every council department, Councillor and beyond that might just have the remotest connection to it, the materials and wages bill for so much paper shuffling is eye watering. so true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Saw one of our councillors reversing into traffic from outside the thule this morning. Held things up for a few moments at least. Anyway, IF he was paying attention, he would realise that it is almost impossible to do MORE than 20mph along the esplanade throughout working hours. A reduction in the current speed limit is not necessary Muppet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 The zebra crossing in Tesco car park isn't. It would need Belisha beacons to make it a zebra crossing according to the cops. Cross at your own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (pedant hat on) The crossings in Tescos car parks (or any other car park) have no legal standing regarding traffic law as it is not on a recognised road. But, yes, if it were on the highway, it would need belisha beacons. CrunchieSquirrel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 wife had to stop on the crossing at tescos this morning to go and help with an accident. two folks came up to us to moan at us the first lot just walked off when explained the second offered to move our car which she did. so to the lady who shifted the car thank you. really sorry to have delayed anyone but the man was in the road and was bleeding . ps he seems to be ok now. CrunchieSquirrel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabiaTerra Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I just want to join the chorus saying this is a policing issue, so the police should get of their arses and sort it. No need for a 20mph limit. Ghostrider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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