Manage, ignore pref settings

[Ghostrider]

 

Eventually if enough users are ignoring the same people those people will either get fed up talking to nobody and leave or they'll look at their behaviour.

 

This was the plan. However after months, they didn't, and they didn't, and patience to keep on waiting and hoping morphed in to believing keeping of doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome was probably insanity right enough, and that an "any publicity is good publicity" maxim was probably at play with them instead.

[Windwalker]

 

I'm not for having people gang up on irritating users in the hope that admins will eventually ban them to keep the peace, a better solution is the ignore button if people really do get fed up with folk then if the function is there admins should be pointing users down that road rather than banning folk. Eventually if enough users are ignoring the same people those people will either get fed up talking to nobody and leave or they'll look at their behaviour.

Having read through the thread, I don't see that anyone was banned. Owerweel asked for his/her account to be closed for what ever reason he/she had. It looked like the pot had been boiling for a while and he/she had just had enough.

 

I do wonder though if anything could have been done beforehand though, either by owerweel or the moderators ? According to the above post owerweel asked for the account to be closed at 8.35 pm on 23rd and the account was closed, I assume, without any further discussion some 4 hours later. Must be a record.

 

This did not allow anytime for a change of heart or time to say, sleep on it. I wonder why Admin closed the account so quickly on this occasion as I can't see he/she did anything wrong unless you regard posting a reply saying 'yawn' is now a banning offence. If so I don't think I will last very long.

 

So Owerweel, I for one would like to see you back involved with the forum and hope you will reconsider, if nothing else I love your smiley dog, it makes me smile every time I see it.

[EM]

... an "any publicity is good publicity" maxim was probably at play with them instead.

Yes, that is the impression I had. The following quote pretty much says so:

 

Hey, not bad that I get 5 additional responses for my post. Not bad from someone who was not going to respond to my posts.

I am reminded of a tale within Kundera's "The unbearable lightness of being." He relates how a journalist in Czechoslovakia is removed from his job, and banned from publishing. This seriously affects the character's state-of-mind, as he had become dependant on having an audience. He then realises that his flat has been bugged by the secret police. Instead of pissing him off further, this proves to be a very happy epiphany. He has a new audience! Regardless of whether the audience is positive or negative to his views, just having people pay attention makes him entirely contented.

[EM]

So Owerweel, I for one would like to see you back involved with the forum and hope you will reconsider, if nothing else I love your smiley dog, it makes me smile every time I see it.

I agree, no more Owerweel would be a miss. I also agree about the dog picture, and I am not at heart the biggest of dog lovers.

[gafynandrew]

I've just read the thread in question and to be pretty damned honest, that's some pretty tame stuff compared to what you'll see on other forums. 

A little bit of Troll lives in all of us.  When you respond to a Troll then you yourself, are counter-Trolling. 

[JohanofNess]

 

 

Eventually if enough users are ignoring the same people those people will either get fed up talking to nobody and leave or they'll look at their behaviour.

 

This was the plan. However after months, they didn't, and they didn't, and patience to keep on waiting and hoping morphed in to believing keeping of doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome was probably insanity right enough, and that an "any publicity is good publicity" maxim was probably at play with them instead.

 

 

To be honest people were continuing to respond to him, ignoring him completely has worked for me.

 

Owre weel falling on their sword was pointless really, what was the hope that admin would look at who was of more benefit to the site and ban him instead?.

[Colin]

I've just read the thread in question and to be pretty damned honest, that's some pretty tame stuff compared to what you'll see on other forums. 

A little bit of Troll lives in all of us.  When you respond to a Troll then you yourself, are counter-Trolling. 

 

Sure there's a bit of troll in all of us and, what you have read was pretty tame but, it wasn't just that thread, it was every thread that certain individuals posted on.

 

Example of low-level trolling;

After using the "Ignore" function, is it within the T&Cs to place "Ignoring ABCXYZ" or, "not responding to ABCXYZ" in your sig.  Almost certain to infuriate the target poster and, if required, you can ignore/add as many names as you like.

[Ghostrider]

@ JohanofNess:

 

Yes, certainly, some were responding, whether for "right" or "wrong" reasons is a different matter. I'm not saying that the poster in question didn't contribute something of substance once in a while, but so much of the rhetoric was presented with undertones of "baiting", patronising, belittling and regularly strangely worded phrases and sentences with double meanings only obvious to the poster and the intended target, designed to poke, prod or insult another specific poster, usually one the poster was losing a debate with, that patience can only stand so much.

 

I tried ignoring, and wish it could have worked, but it was damn hard work when you see time and again a thread that was moving along productively, being entirely derailed by pretty much irrelevant to the OP side debate(s) generated by obtuse comments in some long general ramble the poster had made. It was equally difficult to ignore when other posters referenced and brought in to a discussion the occasional valid point lurking in such ramblings, and it became necessary to know where they'd pulled it from and the context in which it had been presented, to follow where the debate was then heading - as while trying to find it, you inevitably waded through an amount of the not so vaild, disagreeable and outright annoying statements which had also been made, and will power is inadequate for ignoring to remain a tenable option.

 

Peace could have reigned had the poster in question ignored the opinions of those they'd crossed swords with on political, ethical and moral issues as much as they've tried to ignore them and theirs, as it shouldn't have needed a crystal ball to predict fireworks would happen again, sooner rather than later. But they chose not to take that route, and kept on with the long standing subtle and often sly digs, jibes, prods and petty "playground" insults, and inevitably those on the receiving end lost patience and blew in whichever way they felt best to make their point.

 

Respect and tolerance have to be earned, if you give none you cannot expect to receive any, and I cannot recall every witnessing the poster in question giving much of either out to their fellow posters very often, but has always seemed to expect it in return. That situation could only have one conclusion, the only thing I find surprising is that its taken around five years for the balloon to go up.

 

I'm not denying what has been described as "bickering" has destroyed numerous threads over time, but when someone posts what to some others are controversial, dubious etc views, and that poster won't back up their claims with evidence, debate or discuss the thought process by which they reached there views, nor will they agree to disagree when a stalemate is reached, and instead effectively take a "my way of the high way, and by the way, you're all fools" attitude every time, a bickerfest is probably the best that is every going to come of it. And when said poster then makes a habit of popping up on some random thread making obtuse belittling comments at a poster on that thread, using some completely off topic and irrelevant subject from months and sometimes years before on a completely different thread where they'd crossed swords with that same poster, the best than can be hoped for I would speculate is a trading of insults. If it happens once, or even a few times, most folk will just curse, shrug and move on, but when it becomes someone's almost permanent MO, folk will eventually start biting back however they best see fit.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Ghostrider

[Colin]

 

To be honest people were continuing to respond to him, ignoring him completely has worked for me.

 

Owre weel falling on their sword was pointless really, what was the hope that admin would look at who was of more benefit to the site and ban him instead?.

 

 

Agreed, and I think that it's a bit sad when people are driven to withdrawing their membership although, in all honesty, I too considered it.  The only thing that stopped me was that I have never in my life taken a step 'backwards' and, un-subscribing would have turned the protagonist into a 'winner'.  Much prefer him as a 'loser'.

 

I also don't think that the admin's would like to be put in a place where they have to decide who has the most 'worth' as it would be a pretty subjective judgement at best and smack of favouritism.

 

As I know a little bit about programming   and, fully understand the difficulties involved, I wonder if it just might be possible to replace the 'Ignore' function with one that prevents certain named persons from replying to your posts?  IMHO this would be a much better way of moderating behaviour.

[Windwalker]

 

I've just read the thread in question and to be pretty damned honest, that's some pretty tame stuff compared to what you'll see on other forums.

A little bit of Troll lives in all of us. When you respond to a Troll then you yourself, are counter-Trolling.

 

Sure there's a bit of troll in all of us and, what you have read was pretty tame but, it wasn't just that thread, it was every thread that certain individuals posted on.

 

Example of low-level trolling;

After using the "Ignore" function, is it within the T&Cs to place "Ignoring ABCXYZ" or, "not responding to ABCXYZ" in your sig. Almost certain to infuriate the target poster and, if required, you can ignore/add as many names as you like.

God, it's a bit playground mentality, and as you say Colin, would likely just infuriate folk. How can you follow a thread if you can't see half of what's being posted, people responses to the bits you can't see would not make any sense. It's just not something I would choose to do, but everyone to their own.

 

If anyone is ruffling too many feathers, then surely the moderators should step in more to calm the waters and reduce the need for people having to ignore folk or folk leaving. It seems this has all been a bit of shutting the gate after the cow has bolted, then shooting the wrong person for leaving the gate open.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Windwalker

[JohanofNess]

 

 

I also don't think that the admin's would like to be put in a place where they have to decide who has the most 'worth' as it would be a pretty subjective judgement at best and smack of favouritism.

 

As I know a little bit about programming   and, fully understand the difficulties involved, I wonder if it just might be possible to replace the 'Ignore' function with one that prevents certain named persons from replying to your posts?  IMHO this would be a much better way of moderating behaviour.

 

 

Admins really shouldn't need to get involved unless the persons disrupting the forum are doing it frequently and veering so far off topic the majority of the time they do post that they are more or less trolling.

 

Other forums I use the admins will get shot of anyone they don't like or can't be bothered with, can be a bit brutal but it works in the context of that forum. Shetlink is a little different it tries to be a community based forum and to the larger extent it works but like any community there is going to be folk you simply can't get on with and if this were a real world setting you would ignore them. If you stop people who irritate you responding to your posts the threads could get very short if you have a long list of folk who piss you off. The ignore function while not the most ideal solution at least allows you to remove the witterings you simply cannot be bothered to read. I don't think I'm missing anything going by what was being said before. I'd rather that I don't see it than find myself reading more nonsensical ramblings and succumbing to the temptation of ripping the piss out those nonsensical ramblings.

[Ghostrider]

Admins really shouldn't need to get involved unless the persons disrupting the forum are doing it frequently and veering so far off topic the majority of the time they do post that they are more or less trolling.

 

I would contend that this is precisely what the poster in question has been doing consistently with the vast majority of their posts now for some years. Along with using, IMHO, passive aggressive tactics in contravention to one degree or another of the following from the T&C's noted in bold:

 

1. You agree, through your use of the Shetlink website, that you will not submit (or hyperlink to) any material or use language which is defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, inciting of violence, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or in violation of ANY UK law. Personal attacks, inflammatory language, harassment, impersonation, trolling and sockpuppeting (multiple user accounts), or multi-account use (two or more individuals using same account) will not be tolerated.

 

Obviously it goes without saying that personal opinion of the actuality of such activity and of the extent of it, should it be accepted to exist, relies considerably on personal opinion, and ultimately on the judgement call of Admin/Mods. They obviously call it as they see it, as is their right, but in doing so they must also accept the reality that any poster(s) who feel under attack in this way, especially sustained attack over months and years, will defend themselves, probably using similar tactics to those they see as their attacker, whenever their patience is tried that one step too far. That, IMHO, is what has and is going down here.

 

Just because Admin/Mods do not feel they have adequate reason to take action when an issue arises, does not mean something isn't happening, it simply means that from their POV they have judged (for whatever reason) that leaving things to work themselves out however they will, is their preferred option. In their defence, I will concede that when passive aggressive tactics are in play, especially when they are partially hidden within sly little comments and jibes, and strangely worded statements, seeded in to a larger overall statement, it is very difficult for anyone who is not the intended target or at least knows the intended target well to fully see and appreciate the extent of them.

 

However, for the intended target(s) they are obvious, and in some cases, as may have occured here, a sustained attack of such a nature extending over several years generates a situation of either the target(s) being driven out, or the target(s) rising in a concentrated effort to drive out the attacker(s).

 

Ignoring works well in r/l, until you cross paths with someone who won't ignore you, and takes every opportunity to rile you and wind you up, then almost inevitably something will go down eventually if they persist for an extended period. Online is no different in that respect, as I don't think its any more reasonable to expect anyone to ignore the ramblings of another against them in posts on a public board on the web for all to see, than ignore the same type of material shouted out for all to hear in the street.

[Siccar]

Unfortunately now UnlikedStudent has fallen on her sword she will have so much more time to whinge about the place she chose to live in.

[Ghostrider]

^ Needing typing practice I see, one typo in there at least.

 

That aside, somebody needs to provide counter balance for the OTT unrealistic gushings about Shetland a certain non-resident poster keeps pouring out.

 

On a more localised level, she's not whinging about living on my couch yet, so I dunno where the idea came from that she was.

[Windwalker]

Unfortunately now UnlikedStudent has fallen on her sword she will have so much more time to whinge about the place she chose to live in.

.

 

Interesting, you wait until she's gone to have a go at her.... Wow.

 

What I think is that it is a pity that her and owerweel felt they had to pack it in using a local community forum. Now why miss out Owerweel, you could have a dig at him/her as well.