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That's it, hjasga is right. I believe that he means that we should offer the tourists a black bag as they arrive. They then have to cut two holes for their legs to go through. The position of these holes should be 1foot above the bottom of the bag so that it will leave a handy pouch, for obvious reasons.

Hjasga can you not see how unsanitary it is not to have adequate public toilets? It is probably also illegal.

If you go to Aberdeen with your family do you not use public toilets?

Regards,

Rex.

 

 

 

My above comment had nothing to do with the toilets, so I'm unsure why you've directed the second part of your post at me. I commented on the toilets situation in a thread that existed before you started your own:

 

 

Responsibility for the Bigton toilets has been taken on by the community-owned shop, I've heard - huge credit to them if that is true. 

 

Closing the Burra Meal toilets will look ridiculous come summer. They could at least have them open over the school holidays, sure they will have some school cleaners on the books with not much to do.

 

 

I think the Bigton example is an excellent one. A community taking responsibility for itself rather than expecting to be handed something.

Edited by hjasga
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It's utterly laughable to suggest people aren't getting anything back for their Council Tax. The sense of entitlement among a lot of Shetlanders is quite sad to see at times.

 

So what is someone of working age, who doesn't live in town, doesn't have kids at school and doesn't drive getting out of the council? Their rubbish collected once a week (yet), and.....??

Edited by Ghostrider
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It's utterly laughable to suggest people aren't getting anything back for their Council Tax. The sense of entitlement among a lot of Shetlanders is quite sad to see at times.

The problem we have had in Shetland is a council who did not keep control over its spending. It kept spending like there is no tomorrow and then the markets crashed and suddenly they realised that they are spending more than they can afford.

 

Your criticism of "a lot of Shetlanders" though is a bit unfair. When people become accustomed to a good level of service over a lot of years then it is difficult to accept the sudden cut to services. But like most Shetlanders I know, they will a adjust as they are introduced.

 

I don't think there are many " Shetlander's" who do not accept that cuts are necessary, but like "a lot" they are questioning where the cuts are being targeted.

 

Essential services like road gritting and public toilets are bound to raise hackles and I for one would far rather see some sensible cuts in the over staffing in the council then closing cludgies.

 

For instance, have a vote on whether to spend 150k on introducing a 20mph in the centre of town, or keep public toilets open for a while longer until finances improve, and I think I can guess what the answer would be.

Edited by Windwalker
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It's utterly laughable to suggest people aren't getting anything back for their Council Tax. The sense of entitlement among a lot of Shetlanders is quite sad to see at times.

Not laughable at all. A little over dramatised but, not laughable..

 

I (and probably others as well) pay my council tax in order to fund the extras(?) that are necessary for getting by.  Think public toilets, bus waiting rooms, old folks facilities, street cleaning, bin collection etc. Frontline Services.

I do not pay my taxes to keep, otherwise redundant, people in highly paid jobs that contribute nothing to my way of life.

 

As for a sense of entitlement.  Yes I have one but, it is not along the lines of gimmee, gimmee,gimmee, more along the lines of "I have paid for this so, I should have it"

 

If our councillors are so out of touch that they cannot see this then, they have a serious problem.

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When an economy drive is performed internally from the bottom up rather than the top down, and carried out by turkeys who won't vote for Christmas, you get what we've got, disproportionate service reductions to end users at the bottom of the pile, while the machine itself remains largely intact, the moreso the higher up its ranks you go, swallowing up an ever larger disproportionate percentage of overall running costs on account of the lower end output.

 

Few if any Councillors seem to have an original idea of their own any more, rather they proceed on the basis of either rubber stamping or rejecting whatever some "official" dreams up. That being the case, no "internal savings" review is ever going to be unbiased, objective or be taking in the whole of the "big picture".

 

Its going to take nothing short of an external review of the entire structure, procedures, working practices etc of the machine, with a view to centralising, streamlineing and maximising value for money, reporting back to elected members only to achive any real change of worth. What we have after recent exercises, and will continue to have until somebody bites the bullet, is folk paying the same in, getting steadily less out, and propping up a system that is full of un-necessary "work" which serves no other puprose than creating an illusion many seat polishers actually have a function, and paying them over the odds for the privilege.

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It's utterly laughable to suggest people aren't getting anything back for their Council Tax. The sense of entitlement among a lot of Shetlanders is quite sad to see at times.

 

So what is someone of working age, who doesn't live in town, doesn't have kids at school and doesn't drive getting out of the council? Their rubbish collected once a week (yet), and.....??

 

 

Even if you don't use those services personally, they're still supporting the community and any local businesses you do use. Even with cuts, we still have excellent social care, we still have very well kept (although obviously never perfect) roads, we still get our rubbish collected more often than in many other areas of Scotland. But boo hoo, we might no longer be the only area in Scotland to get free black bags that would cost us £1 from the local shop. 

 

I think there are better solutions available with regard to the public toilets - and I think now that they're there they should at least be open during peak tourist seasons if they cannot be opened year round - but it's no wonder councillors are continually pressed into making increasingly difficult decisions if people can't even accept the loss of free black bags without having a whinge.

 

 

When an economy drive is performed internally from the bottom up rather than the top down, and carried out by turkeys who won't vote for Christmas, you get what we've got, disproportionate service reductions to end users at the bottom of the pile, while the machine itself remains largely intact, the moreso the higher up its ranks you go, swallowing up an ever larger disproportionate percentage of overall running costs on account of the lower end output.

 

Few if any Councillors seem to have an original idea of their own any more, rather they proceed on the basis of either rubber stamping or rejecting whatever some "official" dreams up. That being the case, no "internal savings" review is ever going to be unbiased, objective or be taking in the whole of the "big picture".

 

Its going to take nothing short of an external review of the entire structure, procedures, working practices etc of the machine, with a view to centralising, streamlineing and maximising value for money, reporting back to elected members only to achive any real change of worth. What we have after recent exercises, and will continue to have until somebody bites the bullet, is folk paying the same in, getting steadily less out, and propping up a system that is full of un-necessary "work" which serves no other puprose than creating an illusion many seat polishers actually have a function, and paying them over the odds for the privilege.

 
"Folk paying more in and getting steadily less out" is the result of a whole generation of Shetlanders living outwith its means and essentially robbing future generations. We cannot live on reserves forever.
Edited by hjasga
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It's utterly laughable to suggest people aren't getting anything back for their Council Tax. The sense of entitlement among a lot of Shetlanders is quite sad to see at times.

 

So what is someone of working age, who doesn't live in town, doesn't have kids at school and doesn't drive getting out of the council? Their rubbish collected once a week (yet), and.....??

 

 

Even if you don't use those services personally, they're still supporting the community and any local businesses you do use. Even with cuts, we still have excellent social care, we still have very well kept (although obviously never perfect) roads, we still get our rubbish collected more often than in many other areas of Scotland. But boo hoo, we might no longer be the only area in Scotland to get free black bags that would cost us £1 from the local shop.

 

DO NOT tempt me to comment on Social Services. Housing may be beyond hope, but Social Services are doing an excellent job trying to run first equal with them. While certain parts of Social Services *may* be doing a needed and worthwhile job, far too many bits of it is doing nothing but harm, and always has. We won't have very well kept roads in five years if the current maintenance and repair policy continues, "officials" have publicly admitted that much in print as if common sense hadn't told folk that already.

 

 

When an economy drive is performed internally from the bottom up rather than the top down, and carried out by turkeys who won't vote for Christmas, you get what we've got, disproportionate service reductions to end users at the bottom of the pile, while the machine itself remains largely intact, the moreso the higher up its ranks you go, swallowing up an ever larger disproportionate percentage of overall running costs on account of the lower end output.

 

Few if any Councillors seem to have an original idea of their own any more, rather they proceed on the basis of either rubber stamping or rejecting whatever some "official" dreams up. That being the case, no "internal savings" review is ever going to be unbiased, objective or be taking in the whole of the "big picture".

 

Its going to take nothing short of an external review of the entire structure, procedures, working practices etc of the machine, with a view to centralising, streamlineing and maximising value for money, reporting back to elected members only to achive any real change of worth. What we have after recent exercises, and will continue to have until somebody bites the bullet, is folk paying the same in, getting steadily less out, and propping up a system that is full of un-necessary "work" which serves no other puprose than creating an illusion many seat polishers actually have a function, and paying them over the odds for the privilege.

 
"Folk paying more in and getting steadily less out" is the result of a whole generation of Shetlanders living outwith its means and essentially robbing future generations. We cannot live on reserves forever.

 

 

No disagreement there. However much of that living outwith means went on paying for un-necessary procedures, working practices and operational structures and the people needed to maintain and operate them, in a word 'deadwood'. Yet your solution is to continue to maintain such deadwood, and curtail the actual services the population directly benefit from to attempt to reduce the overall budget to within available means - to my thinking that's strange, very strange.

 

Are you suggesting you don't accept the SIC machine contains such deadwood, or are you suggesting it has value and they are justified in preserving it, if so, what is its value, and what is the point of its preservation.

Edited by Ghostrider
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hjasga

"I think there are better solutions available with regard to the public toilets - and I think now that they're there they should at least be open during peak tourist seasons if they cannot be opened year round - but it's no wonder councillors are continually pressed into making increasingly difficult decisions if people can't even accept the loss of free black bags without having a whinge."

 

It wasn't Ghostrider who mentioned black bags, it was me and, more to the point, they are NOT free but, paid for indirectly by way of our council tax.

It's a great deal as well.  £1100+ council tax and you get £3.50 worth of black bags as a thank you for the money.

Also included in the deal is the risk of a fine for incontinence and the priveledge(?) of standing in the wind and rain whilst you wait for a bus safe and secure in the knowledge that the person who dreamed it all up is no more than 30 feet from a toilet, still (for the moment) has a nice secure job and doesn't ever travel by bus.


 

 


 

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