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School Closures


Todd
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yes why. someone was asking for advice re the anderson. neither child was id or judged. which terms were broken. seems a fair question to ask. if your child is forced to board and the school is failing to insure there safety. seems a very  reasonable question.  

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There's no guarantee that giving either of them more money will also give them the wit to spend it more wisely.

 

Given that these cuts are being carried out as a money saving exercise as a direct and demonstrable result of Tory austerity measures, surely it follows logically that, were there no imperative to drastically slash budgets, the 'necessity' to close schools would no longer be there?

 

It doesn't matter which set of cronies is allocating the money if there's frack-all of it to go around, thanks entirely to your Etonian pals in Englandshire. 

 

Still, if it helps assuage your collusion-guilt with our Westminster overlords now that the 'there's hardly any oil left!' fallacy has evaporated and the banks have revealed that the currency uncertainty was mitigated well in advance (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/scottish-referendum-this-is-what-bank-of-england-would-have-done-had-scotland-voted-yes-to-independence-9787866.html) - plus the fact Shetland's darling liberal party is now being overshadowed by UKIP south of the border, leaving us all staring down the barrel of decades of Neo-Liberal rule with yet more Big Business pandering and war mongering at the expense of the working/middle class, then fair enough.  :razz:

Edited by Horns 'O' Da Geo
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There's no guarantee that giving either of them more money will also give them the wit to spend it more wisely.

 

Given that these cuts are being carried out as a money saving exercise as a direct and demonstrable result of Tory austerity measures, surely it follows logically that, were there no imperative to drastically slash budgets, the 'necessity' to close schools would no longer be there?

 

They are? Nothing to do with a bunch of Nats choosing to spend on free uni etc education for a few, or free drugs for all, at the cost of giving everyone a decent start in education.

 

It doesn't matter which set of cronies is allocating the money if there's frack-all of it to go around, thanks entirely to your Etonian pals in Englandshire.

 

Plenty of it to go round, if damn fools would stop spending it on damn fool things, like impotent talking shop regional "parliaments", drug and education freebies vote bribes for those who could well afford to pay for them etc.

 

Still, if it helps assuage your collusion-guilt with our Westminster overlords now that the 'there's hardly any oil left!' fallacy has evaporated and the banks have revealed that the currency uncertainty was mitigated well in advance (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/scottish-referendum-this-is-what-bank-of-england-would-have-done-had-scotland-voted-yes-to-independence-9787866.html) - plus the fact Shetland's darling liberal party is now being overshadowed by UKIP south of the border, leaving us all staring down the barrel of decades of Neo-Liberal rule with yet more Big Business pandering and war mongering at the expense of the working/middle class, then fair enough.  :razz:

 

 

 

Plenty of oil left, and anyone that was persuaded to think otherwise was easily fooled, the oilys wouldn't be spending like they are, and only spending on oil, if there wasn't.

 

Never have been a fan of the Liberals, too wishy washy for my liking. I'd much rather the UKIP were in government than either them, Labour or the SNP and all. Big Business pandering is the lesser evil of Socialist Trade Union pandering IMHO, both are at the expense of the working man - no body ever got rich working for someone else, either make your own way or put up with being done over by either the boss or the Union, thems are the choices.

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

 

Vaila Wishart says the council is following pattern of previous councils - "losing our bottle" halfway through. Closing schools is a very emotional subject and we're never going to get anywhere with rational arguments. That is why I'll ask you to support the motion.

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/9618-live-full-council-debates-northmavine-schools

 

That's a very odd thing to say.  Isn't it?

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Good to see our members of Parliaments attempting to step in and influence this madness.

 

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2014/11/05/parliamentarians-call-for-halt-to-school-closures

 

The SIC should drop this set of draconian financially driven cuts and look to make savings elsewhere. It is refreshing to see all of the threatened communities banding together rather than succumbing to the "divide and conquer" strategy the Council appears to be using. 

 

This whole process has been a farce, getting the cost per pupil figures completely wrong, data protection breaches etc. Not to mention the money it has wasted. I feel certain members of the Council should hang their heads in shame and resign as a result of this debacle. 

 

Suspicion and distrust of the SICs motives regarding rural areas has long been festering at the heart of the Shetland community and this will only make it worse. It is hard not to adopt the "us vs them" mentality when you see money being lavished on new projects in Lerwick on one hand whilst they try to tear the heart out of your community with the other.

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How is it that every time school closures are discussed the alleged "cost savings" are mentioned?.  Thought school closures had to be justified on educational grounds so why mention cost savings?.  Of course there are cost savings to be made in the education budget and I expect the greatest amount could come from within Hayfield House.  Come on councillors, at least investigate what lots of voters in Shetland believe to be true before attempting any more school closures.

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Ancient history, and only of limited relevance to the present, but this somewhat disingenuous argument seems to get trotted out in support of closures whenever the subject is debated, and I think it only fair the errors by omission are also heard.

 

 

12.40pm - Allison Duncan rehearses his experience of closures in the South Mainland 40 years ago - a "very wise decision made by councillors at that time". I've spoken to many then pupils, parents now, in all five communities - Bigton, Levenwick, Boddam, Quendale and Virkie - and a substantial number will make it quite clear it's the best thing that ever happened in the south mainland.

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/9618-live-full-council-debates-northmavine-schools

 

I'm not going to dispute there are people, perhaps a significant number of people who were there who thought the amalgamation of the five schools was a wholly positive move, the plan however also had critics, both before and after the fact, and which camp is in the majority is anyone's guess. They both do however deserve equal voice.

 

Firstly, the quoted source was neither a pupil at the time, nor was the parent of pupils there at the time, so is simply quoting heresay. On the other hand, I was there, right from day one.

 

The event was not without problems, it took at least five or six years if not longer for anything like full integration to be achieved. As long as pupils existed who'd previously attended the various closed schools, so did elements of demarcation lines along those old boundaries, and with them certain old rivalries and feuds at one level or another. Although I'm sure they tried their best, I doubt the situation was helped by the staff finding themselves having to adapt from being their own boss in single teacher schools, or at best one from a two teacher school, to suddenly being just one cog the same as the rest in a bigger teaching team.

 

What also cannot be overlooked is that within four years of opening the new school saw an influx of pupils from the UK mainland which within the next few years more than doubled its roll. Whatever effect being engulfed in such a way had on the integration process is anyone's guess, but it cannot be discounted that it may possible have increased its rapidity, possibly be a significant amount. One thing for sure though, if it did assist, it is highly unlikely any schools integrated today will be either helped or hindered by the same or similar event occuring.

 

Whether now, 45 years later, the combining of the five schools was the "best thing" that ever happened, I don't feel qualified to comment, as my crystal ball doesn't have an alternative past function. It works, certainly, but whether that's because folk have had to try as best they can to ensure it does, or because its a good idea, is again anyone's guess. The five old schools appeared to work equally well in their time, and I'm not entirely convinced they wouldn't have continued to so so equally well, had they had the chance.

 

What is indisputable however, is that had the decision to combine been postponed by as little as five years, the influx of people to the catchment areas would have ensured at least three if not all five old schools would have enjoyed significantly increased rolls, and the argument about low pupil numbers as a reason to combine would have ceased to be. The socioeconomic debate cannot gain anything from the Ness experience, as any depopulation or loss of businesses/amenities which may have followed in the communities which lost their local school, was completely obliterated and reversed and then some by the sudden population influx.

 

The future, as predicted in whatever reports the old ZCC had done before making their decison, has borne absolutely no resemblance to the future which arrived. To even try to suggest anything about it was a "success story", when what it had been planned to cope with was something completely different than what it has ended up coping with, is simply nonsense. It did its job in the circumstances, and continues to, but there's nothing to suggest the five old schools wouldn't have done as well whichever future had arrived, if not better had circumstances allowed them to.

Edited by Ghostrider
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Da Flea is like a stuck record.

 

We've discussed this before on Shetlink,  apart from what you've already mentioned above, the school which the pupils were moving to was a brand new purpose built primary school, which if my memory serves me correctly was no more than 3 or 4 miles away from the existing schools.

 

The Northmavine schools are a completely different situation but it's easy to ignore that if you have a different agenda.

 

I have to admit I've not studied these closure proposals very closely but I have learned a few things today:

 

There is a problem with the time limit for pupils from Eshaness in that the bus journey could not be completed in under 40 minutes.  There still seemed to be an insistence that this could be overcome - probably with an express bus or taxi which would of course cost extra money which has probably not been factored into the costings.  My own personal opinion is that no primary age pupil should be travelling for more than 30 minutes to get to school, if at all possible.

 

The majority of the savings which they stated would be saved if N Roe closed would only occur for a year,  as school rolls are rising in Northmavine so Ollaberry would have had to employ an extra teacher, therefore knocking out the majority of the savings from closing N Roe.

 

Da flea needs to start looking at the facts of the schools being consulted on instead of dredging up something which happened 50/60 years ago and which bears no relevance to this situation.

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Da Flea is like a stuck record.

 

We've discussed this before on Shetlink,  apart from what you've already mentioned above, the school which the pupils were moving to was a brand new purpose built primary school, which if my memory serves me correctly was no more than 3 or 4 miles away from the existing schools.

 

The Northmavine schools are a completely different situation but it's easy to ignore that if you have a different agenda.

 

I have to admit I've not studied these closure proposals very closely but I have learned a few things today:

 

I suspected we had been on this before, but looking for it would have been a needle in a haystack. Yes, a brand new purpose built school - apart from the fact the plans needed altered half way through to add an additional classroom and two smaller general purpose rooms. I wonder how that error happened in the plans!

 

Virtually all were within the 4 mile radius, at the time of opening there might have been 5 from the northern and southern extremities that were around the 5+ miles, but I'd be reasonably sure they still managed it within 30 minutes travelling time.

 

I've paid no attention to this debate before now, as I have no vested interest in schools, and Northmavine isn't a place I know much about, but some of the stuff in the reports of yesterday's and today's meetings you could only go "WTF" at.

 

I've probably said it before as well, but my biggest concern is that we now have a situation where snow and ice treatment of roads and road maintenance have been cut back, and now we're putting more and more younger and younger bairns on the roads for longer and longer journeys five days a week, every week. Its not often we get a real blind moor (whiteout), but we're long overdue one, and those of us who've seen them before, know full well that even plough/gritter trucks have to quit and sit it out just like everyone else, as its impossible to see where the road is supposed to be, and even if they still can they're fighting a losing battle as it fills in behind them virtually immediately.

 

You only get a very limited window of opportunity between being aware conditions potentially might get that bad and them actually arriving, its not unheard of that between calling out the buses early and them arriving at a school, conditions have deteriorated so much that drivers refused to set out as they knew they were going to get stuck long before they could finish the route. *If* the council had enough plant and drivers that they could continually work the roads as long as possible on the routes needed to get all the kids home, it *might* be worth the gamble, but they've never had that, and now certainly don't.

 

Its one thing having a bus load of teens stuck in snow in the middle of nowhere with no assistance possible until conditions overhead improve, they are mature enough to cope almost as well as adults, but when its a crowd of mostly under 10's, I certainly wouldn't want to be the one adult trying to keep them calm and ensure their safety.

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