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Lovely walk out until.... ( dogs)


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Do I detect some indignation there from Windwalker? Or is merely hot air?

 

Anyway Derek, you're talking tosh! and so am I apparently, regarding Shetland, sheep, and large dogs.

 

And, it's the dog owner, not the dog! So you really must try harder to get your german shepherd trained, or get in touch with Windwalker directly to give you some tips. Noone will ever have cause for concern on the beach again.

 

Your dog will immediately return to you when told, to be put back on the lead in certain areas at certain times. No more problems then with nervous adults and terrified kids.

Let us dream on!

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Snip...

 

Having said that, I do think I should be able to take grandchildren to the beach without fear of a confrontation with a large dog, friendly or otherwise. Some people and small children especially are terrified of dogs and sometimes for good reason. Why should they not be allowed to enjoy a leisurely hour or so at the beach without fear. 

 

....snip

The animal may be soft and friendly, may have a lovely nature, but can still do harm to those who do not bounce as well as others if knocked over. Many elderly folk I know, although spritely, are in fear of being knocked over. Children are also subseptable to injury with being knocked over, it is because they have not developed the responses to save their vital parts in the event of a fall. Beaches should be for all to enjoy but also to be responsible on.

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This  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-27654888 rather highlights the dangers of uncontrolled dogs.  That said most dogs do not attack anyone and they do provide great companionship for their owners.  Maybe we not only need to bring back the licence but make it specific to one dog per licence and have some way to enforce licensing.

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Licensing will help reduce the cruelty of puppy farms, they could be linked with the chip all dogs should have. I do not see it as a means to control suitability, but to create more acountability. The fee could go to cleaning up the mess that is so often seen in Lerwick and providing more facilities for those deposits. The laws are odd in a way, most councils have limited the road speed on which enforcement can happen, here it is 40mph and or a public place. There is also a problem with unadopted roads as the council will have little to enforce there.

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Well unlike Windwalker, I have found most of Shetlandpeat's comments quite reasonable.

 

One thing though, I have to say, regarding Peat's terriers, he is liable to find himself on the wrong end of the law by allowing them to kill rabbits. Though I have to say it's the dog's natural instinct brought into play here, and I have no problem with that.

 

Strange though isnt it that someone's cat can come into your garden and kill whatever it likes with impunity. No legal problem here for the cat owner. As they say "you cant control a cat like you can a dog!"

Well as far as I'm concerned if you cant control the animal you shouldnt keep the animal, I dont want your cat in my garden. And if I was a landowner I wouldnt want it on my land either killing birds, especially during the nesting season.

Time to license these too, they are an ecological nightmare.

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I have wondered what the impact has been on ground nesting birds by dogs and cats, I would think a dog running free could do much damage as well as cats that may get the taste for killing birds, all the blame for that seems to centre on hedgehogs though (another import to Shetland by mankind).

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Do I detect some indignation there from Windwalker? Or is merely hot air?

 

Anyway Derek, you're talking tosh! and so am I apparently, regarding Shetland, sheep, and large dogs.

 

And, it's the dog owner, not the dog! So you really must try harder to get your german shepherd trained, or get in touch with Windwalker directly to give you some tips. Noone will ever have cause for concern on the beach again.

 

Your dog will immediately return to you when told, to be put back on the lead in certain areas at certain times. No more problems then with nervous adults and terrified kids.

Let us dream on!

Neither, I'm speaking from experience of owning dogs and walking them in Shetland all my life. I cannot see why anyone would find Shetland unsuitable for walking large dogs. When near sheep I keep mine on a lead and only let him off the lead when it is safe to do so. Simples

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Yes Peat, that brings us back to control of the dog. The cat as we've established cant be controlled unfortunately unless by drastic reduction in numbers.

As for the hedgehog! another disastrous import to the islands. No natural enemies up here to keep numbers under control, and most of the birds groundnesting by necessity. They munch their way happily through the eggs and nestlings of skylarks, wheatears, ring plovers, lapwings, curlew, whimbrel, etc. etc.

The only enemy they have to control their numbers is the radial, (car tyre), which also helps to keep down on the other nightmare import, the polecat ferret.

Noone should feel guilty about running either of these over, any you see successfully ironed into the tarmac represents several clutches of young birds which will survive hopefully into adulthood. They have other predators to deal with, these imported extra ones should be removed from the equation.

Hedgehogs are apparently under threat in parts of England, their numbers have slumped drastically. This is a pity, but they dont belong here. Perhaps Mr Tiggywinkle who has been concerned for so long about hedgehogs, would like to come up here and take the lot back to the mainland.

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And there are times Windwalker, when you are wandering over the hills, that you dont know when you are near sheep. Because of the terrain sheep can pop up quite unexpectedly, and if your dog is running out in front, things can develop.

 

If this is when the sheep are heavy with lamb, and your dog does chase for a while, that ewe can easily abort. Of course you may never have come across  any situation like this, but unfortunately many do.

 

And the dog doesnt always come back immediately.

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Licensing will help reduce the cruelty of puppy farms, they could be linked with the chip all dogs should have. I do not see it as a means to control suitability, but to create more acountability. The fee could go to cleaning up the mess that is so often seen in Lerwick and providing more facilities for those deposits. The laws are odd in a way, most councils have limited the road speed on which enforcement can happen, here it is 40mph and or a public place. There is also a problem with unadopted roads as the council will have little to enforce there.

 

Rubbish.  There is at least one prolific breeder in Ormskirk that lets her bitches give birth at 1 yr old meaning they are younger than the KC permitted age when tied, known to both the local and county council there.  Local authorities are already the licensing authority if somebody has above a certain number of pups per annum.  The local and county authorities are doing nothing, provided they get their money each year.  She is the only breeder in the UK that manages to have above the normal number of pups in a litter (say 9 or even 12 as opposed to half that) and the fact she has water, shelter, etc., for her pups they do nothing.  The health problems months later mean nothing to the monitoring bodies.

 

Microchipping just means that a dog can be traced back to its owner.  There are already false microchips out there, it isn't difficult to microchip a dog, as the gangs smuggling underaged pups from The Netherlands know.

 

We don't need more laws when there are already existing animal welfare laws out there that the local authorities decide not to use.  And why oh why are charities (SSPCA/RSPCA) doing the animal welfare investigatory work in cruelty cases when it should be the Police?

 

Introducing a licence won't stop people owning dogs.  The Scottish Government recently asked for opinions on dog licensing.  If they are proposing over £100 for a dog licence, can pensioners afford that?  At one time I was in favour of the dog licence scheme returning but now I'm not so sure.  It'll be the same as anything else ... those who already don't give a toss will continue to not give a toss and won't purchase the licence.

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And there are times Windwalker, when you are wandering over the hills, that you dont know when you are near sheep. Because of the terrain sheep can pop up quite unexpectedly, and if your dog is running out in front, things can develop.

 

If this is when the sheep are heavy with lamb, and your dog does chase for a while, that ewe can easily abort. Of course you may never have come across  any situation like this, but unfortunately many do.

 

And the dog doesnt always come back immediately.

I think most sensible people don't walk through the hills with dogs when they are heavy with lamb. And the neighbouring land owner allows me to run the dog on fields with no sheep in them.

 

I do occasionally go up over the hill, outside lambing time, but the dog, being as daft as he is is more frightened of sheep than they are if him. He has never chased sheep and is very good at coming back when told to. :-)

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As for the charities, us British animal lovers hand over 250,000 animals a year, if not more and have 11,000 dogs exterminated. They are the only ones expert enough to follow up such investigations, and of course they can claim their costs, with the hope they are awarded.

 

 

As for licensing, it can, if managed correctly, help to reduce the puppy farms, especially the only woman in the UK to have an exceptionaly productive one, truely amazing.

 

She is the only breeder in the UK that manages to have above the normal number of pups in a litter (say 9 or even 12 as opposed to half that)

I would like to see how that is evidenced. Also, pass on her details to me and I will inform some local groups who may have better plans to deal with it rather than spouting on a forum. There are more ways to skin a cat.

 

As ever, things get more difficult for folks in these times, I agree the figure  made up of £100 is emotive in respect of old folk. I doubt it will be fixed at that. Having a dog licenced can invoke a sense of responsibility. It is also easier to catch those who do not have one, as they do not have one. It may also put off those who want to own too many dogs for their environnment. As for Policing, the RSPCA of the Scottish equivalent can do that, until of course the Police are given enough funds to do it.

 

If, as you say, laws will just continue to be ignored, oh why do we bother?

 

http://www.rspca.org.uk/webContent/staticImages/Flipbooks/prosecutions_review_2012/files/inc/d2d384a89c.pdf

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/almost-150-animal-cruelty-cases-every-day-in-scotland-says-sspca-1-2154789

 

It is interesting to work with these figures, the worry though is they will increase as the chance of prosecution lessens with the cutting of funding to both charities and the Police.

 

Anyhow, getting back to the real issue, that is, meeting an uncontrolled dog when out for a walk.....

 

There are many cases where folk have been attacked by uncontrolled dogs, sadly, when they kill an unlicensed animal, it is not reportable unless thay are of a dangerous breed. This is another advantage of licensing. The dick extension that is the dog bred just for fighting is, from what I have seen, is the biggest problem, though, not just limited to them.

 

I would think, the question is, if your dog is so well behaved, would you leave it in a room with 3 year old and go out of sight from them? I think not..

 

Just as a sideline, as we are worried about dogs so much,#

http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232712491490&mode=prd

Edited by shetlandpeat
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As for the charities, us British animal lovers hand over 250,000 animals a year, if not more and have 11,000 dogs exterminated. They are the only ones expert enough to follow up such investigations, and of course they can claim their costs, with the hope they are awarded.

 

 

As for licensing, it can, if managed correctly, help to reduce the puppy farms, especially the only woman in the UK to have an exceptionaly productive one, truely amazing.

 

She is the only breeder in the UK that manages to have above the normal number of pups in a litter (say 9 or even 12 as opposed to half that)

I would like to see how that is evidenced. Also, pass on her details to me and I will inform some local groups who may have better plans to deal with it rather than spouting on a forum. There are more ways to skin a cat.

 

 

No, charities are not the only experts.  Many a time charities don't know about breed specific behaviour and many a time they refer to breed clubs for assistance with rehoming because they would put them to sleep.  Why should a charity with a political agenda be doing the Government's work?

 

The KC publishes breed supplements.  In addition, anyone can search by specific breed/the affix and see the offspring if registered with the KC.

 

Why don't you just forward the names of the local organisations to me?  I'd know exactly what I was talking about; after all, I already know how to get the evidence as illustrated whereas it would appear by enquiring as to how that is evidenced, you didn't.  I should, however, have put specific to that particular breed re "only breeder in the UK".

 

As for getting back to the real issue "that is, meeting an uncontrolled dog when out for a walk ..." - how about an uncontrolled toddler?  The OP has yet to confirm that her dog was attacked.  I doubt that a screaming toddler will have helped the situation either; or should a toddler not be trained how to react to animals?

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Windwalker, I have to say, you are an example to other dog owners.

 

I fear however you are in the minority. A big proportion of dog owners will have little or no idea when ewes are going to heavy with lamb.

 

Nor will they be going out of their way to get on friendly terms with the landowner either. They'll just gibber on about freedom of access with limited access to common sense.

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Windwalker, I have to say, you are an example to other dog owners.

 

I fear however you are in the minority. A big proportion of dog owners will have little or no idea when ewes are going to heavy with lamb.

 

Nor will they be going out of their way to get on friendly terms with the landowner either. They'll just gibber on about freedom of access with limited access to common sense.

 

What a sweeping generalisation about dog owners.  (:

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