More on Street Lighting

[shetlandpeat]

We forget about your theories on local Gov. As there is no other supplier, and the pre-requisite to reduce the carbon footprint, building a seperate generation and distribution system to satisfy your own desires upon such establishments would be folly.

Now, imagine the senario, council refuses to pay, options, renegotiate, still will not achieve the 40% savings. Feeder pillars disconnected at the normal cost of a disconnection, as well as the units directly fed from secondary distribution.

Ure blowing out of your herse with this one. It seems quite a bit of effort to save a few pounds when a cheaper alternative is already available. You sound like the folk you compalin about.

 

Perhaps not paying rents will get the council to change their policy, now then, who first?

[Ghostrider]

^ "If you really want to do something, you’ll find a way. If you don’t, you’ll find an excuse". - Jim Rohn.

 

Perhaps not paying rents will get the council to change their policy, now then, who first?

 

Nah, Peat. This is what happens, do please try and keep up old boy. 

 

http://www.shetlink.com/index.php?/topic/8481-sic-housing-tenant-satisfaction-survey/page-2

[shetlandpeat]

Yup, that worked....

 

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/?s=housing+residents+hold+back+on+rents&submit=Search

 

There is obviously a swell amongst residents to do this.

[Windwalker]

Just watching a programme on BBC2 regarding a local authority who are changing all their street lights over to LEDs. They quote that the initial pay back time is expected to be 5 years, but it will reduce the annual cost by 80%

 

Now surely that type of investment would be a wise one for our council. But no, they spend a fortune having all these reports written up with complicated, questionable results, which will no doubt change over time resulting in less savings than originally quoted whilst at the same time causing a blooming nuisance to rate payers.

 

For heavens sake council, bite the bullet and install LEDs saving around 80% and if need be turn off lights where practicable. That will show some immediate savings and within 5 years you will be more than meeting targets.

 

Is there no one in our council with any common sense, or is it a case of making things complicated to keep as many seat polishers in a job as possible?

[shetlandpeat]

Your figures are not quite correct, the information from the program states that there are potential savings of UP TO 80% and not as you state.

I would concure with the electricians quote on the total power cosumption, however, the lanterns being fitted will save 60% and not 80% as you say. On the figure given in this thread of £50 per lantern per year, it will equate to a saving of £30. Of course, these savings are for magnetic control. The savings would be less with electronic control, more so because the older lanterns were fitted with 70 lux cells, the electronic types went to 55 lux cells. You could go as far as fitting 35 Lux cells, these for a cost of about £6 each can on their own show substantial savings over cost.

 

As for the initial time scales, if you factor in the cost, as we were shown of 4 men, 2 vehicles, an old lantern to be disposed of under the WEEE Regs and the safe disposal of the envelope, I would think the savings may not be achieved in 5 years. I have been fitting LED lights now for a number of years. They do come with their problems.

 

Due to the heat of the LEDs and driver, the main body of the lantern is aluminium, this is to safely disperse the heat, a heat sink. We have now found that some of these lanterns are suffering with corrosion and are letting in water, you remember the problem with aluminium was highlighted and laboured upon in the Mareel thread, The issue, especially with Philips Stela lanterns, the corrosion happenes around the LED appertures and on the cover that protected the driver and mains input as well as the mini cell. I can only imagine this could be worse in a salty environment, many lanterns in Shetland are made from fibreglass.

 

If anyone from the council is reading this, we have moved away from the Philips Stela, we only fit new ones under warrenty or to match existing schemes. We are now using Urbis 8s, 16s, 32s and yet to go with 64s.

 

From recolection, the LED lanterns come in at about £200, though if you take into account that councils may not pay VAT on items such as these, you are looking at about £160. That is, if you get the bulk discount we get here, we have installed 1000s.

Edited June 9, 2014 by shetlandpeat

[Ghostrider]

Weel, da day I hed a peerie waander furt (I know this will come as a shock to some "locals" and a few members of staff within SIC Housing, given recent rumours, but whatever.....), so though I'd give a smidgin of publicity to a few recent (and not so recent) arrivals to this neighbourhood. First I'd like you to meet "Stumpy".

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/IMG_2291a.jpg

 

In a previous incarnation "Stumpy" ((s)he he had no name back then) was a fine upstanding, bright and enlightening member of this neighbourhood for many years, from about 1972 until December 2011 to be precise. Many people benefitted from and appreciated "Stumpy's" valuable contribution in his/her earlier incarnation, unfortunately after 39 years of sterling service "Stumpy" met a very sudden and tragic demise, cut down at the knees and had his/her brilliantly illuminating head smashed to smithereens in the vicious assault of the Christmas gale of that year.

 

(S)he lay quite forlornly in pieces on the cold hard concrete until the next day, when a kindly workperson gathered up his/her torn and damaged parts and wrapped his/her remaining stump securely in grey plastic sheet and duct tape, and so "Stumpy" was born. Early hopes that "Stumpy" would soon be replaced by a equally bright and illuminating newer version of his/her former self steadily faded as 2012 unfolded, and were all but given up for lost when 2013 too steadily passed in to history. They were briefly rekindled in the later summer of 2013 when a section of fencing which had also been brutally murdered by the same Christmas 2011 gale was finally rescued from the ever increasing tangled wilderness of long grass in was lying in, taken away for respectful burial, and replaced with a brand new shiney piece. These too however quickly evaporated again over the following days and weeks when nothing further happened.

 

With the arrival of 2014 "Stumpy" was looking quite the forlorn sight, two years of battering by Shetland's climate and even duct tape was failing and blowing in the wind, the grey plastic having succumbed to sundry various small holes and tears long before. Yesterday however was a very important day for "Stumpy" as two workpersons arrived in a yellow van and gave him/her a brand new look and makeover, gone is the drab grey ragged plastic and failing grey duct tape look, replaced by a quite striking black plastic and yellow insulation tape striped contrast, giving "Stumpy" his/her brightest look in two and a half years - not entirely illuminating again I grant you, but hey, I guess we have to be thankful for what little improvements come our way. Personally, I am already looking forward to December 2016 wondering what "Stumpy's" next "new look" make over will be like.

 

Next, we move on to "Stumpy Jr." who lives barely 50 yards along the road from "Stumpy".

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/IMG_2293a.jpg

 

Although also in a previous incarnation an equally fine upstanding, bright and enlightening member of this neighbourhood of the same vintage as "Stumpy's" previous incarnation, "Stumpy Jr." is a significantly more recent addition to the neighbourhood, having only be cut down at the knees to "Stumpy" status during the gales of last winter. As you can see he/she was excused the grey plastic and grey duct tape uniform, and immediately give the black plastic version. However, assumedly to allow them to identify themselves as kindred spirits, and so that "Stumpy Jr." did not take offence at the thought of being left out in the brightness, (s)he too receives a little bit of bright yellow insulating tape on top.

 

Now, we have two un-named, but somewhat dubious characters.

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/IMG_2294a.jpg

 

 

The poor individual in the foreground appears to have lost his/her head somewhat and taken to having a bit of a leaning towards.....something. The entire head of this character, depending on wind strength and direction has the ability to rotate clockwise through approx 45 degrees from where it is and back again at will. That said, it is still always brightly illuminating to all who wish to cast eyes upon him/her, so for that I think it would be reasonably accurate to say, most are quite thankful, given that there is very little other illumination around these parts. The main question though is, what happens next? A fireworks display when the wiring insulation wears through from all the head movement and shorts, or (s)he simply loses his/her wobbly head completely in some gale and it hopefully doesn't land on someone walking under it when it does. The character in the background, in comparison is quite dull, in fact (s)he has been very, very dull from last October/November when (s)he stopped working, until a few days ago when (s)he was eventually repaired.....

 

Now, I have undoubtedly bored mant to tears or sent them to sleep long ago, so I will shutup. But in parting, a quick thought, somebody stated above that each light cost the SIC approx £50.00/annum to the Hydro in power charges. Soo, one light out, but remainug in situ for two and a half years equals £125.00, plus two lights out for at least six months each equals 2 x £25.00 = £50.00. Giving a grand total of £175.00, paid to SSE from public funds for.....nothing.

 

These four lights are all within an approx 100 metre diameter area, if the same situation is replicated in other rural situations in Shetland, or even replicated at only ha;f that concentration, that's quite a cheque the SIC are giving SSE for no return annually. Or is it just that this neighbourhood has been mostly ignored and neglected as far as lighting maintenance and repair is concerned, and other locations are generally receiving a superior service?

[MuckleJoannie]

 There are a few on the south road into Lerwick and some in Scalloway.

[Ghostrider]

 There are a few on the south road into Lerwick and some in Scalloway.

 

Its heartening to know that the subjects of the great metropolis are being expected to make similiar sacrifices to us yokels out in the sticks anyway. 

 

I can understand why in locations where in their wisdom they have arbitarily decided to remove all lighting anyway, letting it fall in to disrepair while they get around to the actual removal. But in areas where they're not, I'm struggling to see what's being gained unless building up an ever increasing future repair bill, especially if as alleged, the power bill is calculated per number of actual connected installations, not number of working installations.

[MuckleJoannie]

I can't remember where I read or heard it, but an SIC official said that the council couldn't afford to replace defective lamp posts so they just had to chop them down and cover the stumps with black bags.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

What I found interesting is that within the plethora of internal literature is the fact that they decided there would be no impact on the disabled by introducing the reduced lighting schemes.  Who did they ask?  I know of at least one disabled person upon whom the lack of street lamps has already had a detrimental effect, given that they quite often go a few feet outside of their home during the hours of darkness.

[Pooks]

Pretty sure it won't affect the blind too much. Apart from the fact that the cost has now come to light (ahem), they have probably realised that they have been paying far too much on their rates bill.

 

I have never been a big fan of street lights. The cost of supply, maintenance and upkeep is one thing but when the street lights are spaced so close together that they give you more light than a normal Shetland day then things are wrong. I commented years ago that a simple cure to solve a lot of the issues would be to replace dead bulbs with energy efficient down lit LED's.

 

By having them only spread the light downwards it would appease the dark skies bunch and by replacing them periodically it would have cost virtually nothing compared to the problems that are being exercised now.

 

I feel a Hollywood poster coming up...

[Ghostrider]

Back to bore you some more, but in the interests of safety, democracy, fair play or something, I feel it is necessary to provide proof both Stumpy and Stumpy Jr. did exist in previous upstanding and illuminating incarnations. So, may I present, courtesy of everybody's friend, Messrs Google & Google World Domination Inc. if a smidgin weatherworn and rust desplattered after circa 37 years of being battered to f**k by wasterly an sooth aest gales, as they stood in June 2009.

 

Stumpy....

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/Stumpy.jpg

 

....and, Stumpy Jr.

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/StumpyJr.jpg

 

Quickly moving on, and taking a little toddle along the road, which is a tad beyond my current range, so I'm relying on "local information", received from a trustworthy "contact"......

 

Apparently, at first things ain't too bad, the first lamp is reported to be in excellent working order and condition, however the next looks more than a little like this:

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/002.jpg

 

Then, apparently despite seeming awfully un-necessarily close together there are two which are pretty much okay, but they're quickly followed with this one, which seems to have also caught the leaning disease.

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/005.jpg

 

After that it all goes a bit dodgy, as one of the next two has apparently been reduced to this:

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/004.jpg

 

.....and the next one has this look going on.

 

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/Redneck_Hillbilly0504/0031.jpg

 

Oh, did I mention all of the above, including the Stumpies are within less than a single length of 250 metres of road.

 

Clearly Stumpy and/or Stumpy Jr. have a secret breeding program in place, as being the elder statespersons of the area at over 40 years residence, these others along the road, being much younger (as best as I recall they only arrived in the mid 90's, but stand corrected if wrong)  at less than 20 when they succumbed to stumpyness too, must be their considerably less robust offspring.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Ghostrider

[Ghostrider]

Does the street light on top of the Market Cross ever get switched off? I know its a dark hole unless on summer mornings, but is there really any need to keep it on 24/7/365, I maybe don't see it often, but I've yet to see it not lit regardless of time of day.

 

Or is this is the latest ploy by the council to get their money's worth outta SSE - keep some lights burning permanently to compensate for all the broken ones they have.

[Ghostrider]

STOP PRESS!

 

Finally, after two years, ten months and almost two weeks, Stumpy seems to be about to get a decent burial at last with the arrival of a yellow vehicle and two men wielding a Hilti hammer... Only shame is he'll probably not be replaced, so residents and pedestrians of this dark corner will continue to trip over kerbs and sundry pointless concrete erections around their feet, unless they carry torches or provide their own exterior lighting. I would be delighted to be enlightened otherwise though, and proven wrong.

[sludgegulper]

Stumpies relatives in Sandwick have been given a decent burial BUT, they have been replaced with brand new members of the family