More on Street Lighting

[Cilla Cone]

 

 Lerwick has other disadvantages some who chose to live in the country have not

 

 

 

 

 

I rather suspect I'm not the only country dweller that didn't have a choice.

[shetlandpeat]

Everyone has a choice, it depends on the ramifications of making that choice.

[Cilla Cone]

Let me make this a little clearer for you shall I.

 

I didn't have a choice.

 

The ramifications of this lack of choice means I am unlikely to get on the housing ladder as any extra income is spent running and maintaining a car. I don't have a reliable bus service.

 

Renting privately in Lerwick would also leave me in a similar financial situation.

 

Tell me, how am I to get ahead if I want to get on the housing ladder and provide for a future family?

 

As far as I'm concerned the street lights are the least of my worries and they could all be switched off tomorrow.

[shetlandpeat]

I am saddened to hear that, there are schemes in place to help, but it depends on your personal situation which we cannot discuss on here.

It is a catch many are in, myself included, I do not earn enough to run a car and enjoy the life I do now with my interests and hobbies, I am fortunate in that I can do without one and the transport network is better, but not as cheap. I also cycle which helps me, but cycling in Shetland needs dedication far beyond what I do.

 

I do hope your situation becomes better for you.

[Ghostrider]

With the SIC turning off selected street lighting in a cost cutting exercise, the cul-de-sac where I live with elderly and invalid neighbours is left in pitch darkness at night. Many other areas will be the same. It occurred to me there could be a cheaper, energy saving alternative providing SIC and residents, or even selected residents are agreeable. Here's the big question - would you agree to have SIC install one of those movement detecting halogen lamps above your front door free of charge? If so, providing other neighbours also agreed, you could all walk along the unlit street and have a light automatically come on as you pass by. There is of course pro's and con's.  Each street will be different. The lamps are not expensive. They will not be high enough to flood the required area with light. SIC responsible for maintaining them (Maybe?) The resident picks up the electricity bill (Hey! Didnt't we already hand over Council Tax to fund street lighting? And finally, it's not just people turn these lamps on, My sisters lamp is triggered by a hedgehog in her garden.

Might be worth a pilot scheme to see if it works.

It's just a thought, probably not a new idea, and even more probable, it's full of loopholes and potholes.

 

I'd much rather the council did something sensible like pulling the bulbs out of every second light in their "target" areas leaving folk with some light all of the time, rather than a lot of light some of the time and pitch dark the rest. That way, nobody would be terribly inconvenienced, and they'd immediately slash their power bill for the areas in question by 50%. Switching off from midnight to 6 am is not the cost saving it seems, during the 3 month of darkest winter, the lights are on 18 hours per day, their off time will only save 33% of their power bill, during the 3 months of long light nights in summer the lights are only on for 2-3 hours, they'll only save the cost of 2 hours at most from that going off at midnight, when they could as easily save all of the cost everywhere during that time, as it rarely gets much darker than when the lights are on anyway.

 

I have no doubt they'll press ahead regardless with their chosen scheme based on damed statistics some suit behind a desk has played with and dressed up to sound convincing, but if they do, I full intend to install a PIR Halogen above my door as suggested, at least 250w, probably 500w, as I simply do not trust some of the characters SIC Housing cause to come in to this neighbourhood, and if they are that close to my door as active the sensor, I want to see exactly what they're up to, and with any luck blind them. If the SIC of neighbours don't like it, the former can go whistle, and the latter can hang up thicker curtains......

[shetlandpeat]

The council only pay on hours of darkness, types of lantern, types of control gear and switching. It generally is averaged out under an agreement. As for removing bulbs, this will not reduce the charge in any way, they would have to remove the streetlight.

 

I am amused that a dame would do the stats though.

[Ghostrider]

As for removing bulbs, this will not reduce the charge in any way, they would have to remove the streetlight.

 

Exactly how does a lamp fitted with a blown bulb, or with no bulb at all use electricity that the Hydro can justify billing the SIC for, oh great oracle?

 

If the SIC are paying the Hydro a flat rate per lamp per day/week/month/year/whatever, regardless whether it uses any chargable  product from the Hydro, or not. Its the Hydro the SIC should be putting over a barrel to get a better deal from, not hauling down lamps.

[Carlos]

Yes, it's a negotiated fixed charge for electricity,  based on usage hours and light types according to this:
http://www.shetland.gov.uk/communityplanning/documents/StreetLightingappraisal_24Oct12.pdf

Averages out at £50 per light per year in electricity.

[maddisp]

Most street light circuits use 3 phases and every third street light will be on red,yellow or blue phase. Could timers not be fitted to two of the phases leaving every third lamp on during quiet periods. This could in many cases leave enough light to bumble home after a night out and keep the burglers at bay.     

[Ghostrider]

Yes, it's a negotiated fixed charge for electricity,  based on usage hours and light types according to this:

http://www.shetland.gov.uk/communityplanning/documents/StreetLightingappraisal_24Oct12.pdf

 

Averages out at £50 per light per year in electricity.

 

That makes it very simple then, take the bulb out of every second lamp, and pay the Hydro £1 a week less for every dead light.....Presumably the SIC have already been in negotiations with the Hydro for a reduction in cost once their current off from midnight to 6am proposals are up an running, elsewise we're all be going to be sitting in the dark, and paying what we are at the moment still and on. So why not they just skip to the chase and keep it simple by telling the Hydro they're going to be paying them £1 less per week for every light they disable, end of, as that means both parties get a fair deal. Or is the Hydro so distrustful of the SIC that they're insisting the whole fitting is removed before they believe a lamp is not drinking any of their juice?.....Come to think, given my personal experiences with the SIC, I could fully understand the Hydro being that distrustful of them.

[Ghostrider]

Most street light circuits use 3 phases and every third street light will be on red,yellow or blue phase. Could timers not be fitted to two of the phases leaving every third lamp on during quiet periods. This could in many cases leave enough light to bumble home after a night out and keep the burglers at bay.     

 

Sounds fine to me. We're not needing to be floodlit enough to read the Times all night, but a glimmer to keep folks feet out of mires and cat and dog sharn, and let folk see any ne'er-do-wells skulking around in more built up areas, would do much for a lot of folk's convenience and peace of mind to sleep soundly in their beds all night.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Ghostrider

[shetlandpeat]

Most street light circuits use 3 phases and every third street light will be on red,yellow or blue phase. Could timers not be fitted to two of the phases leaving every third lamp on during quiet periods. This could in many cases leave enough light to bumble home after a night out and keep the burglers at bay.     

This statement is incorrect, only in high load areas is 3 phase used. Nearly all side street lights will be on a single phase.

You would still need to remove the installation to qualify for the discount in electricity prices. Lighting is installed where it is needed according to the guidance set down in documents on the SIC web site.

 

For every other installation you will need to remove, the cable will have to be jointed through or if connected via the electricity companies system disconnected (incurring and additional charge of about £300). You would then have to remove the complete installation. If then, conditions change and there is again a requirement for a streetlight, a complete installation will be required again. You will find many do not want the lights off and especially where there could be a danger to pedestrians.

[Ghostrider]

You would still need to remove the installation to qualify for the discount in electricity prices.

 

Oh come on Peat, is the word "negotiate" alien to you?

 

Besides, seeing as the SIC SCT is already in bed with SSE, tweaking who pays for what, when, where and why can be sorted just fine during their pillow talk I'm sure.

[shetlandpeat]

Not to me but it is to a profit orientated establishment.

 

I doubt very much this will happen. Unless of course you know better.

 

 

 

Installing PNCs and electronic control gear can save 40% after 5 years they pay for themselves, these reduce the need also to change the lamp.

 

The 5 or so LED Stella Lights could also be rolled out, these use less power and the light is far more controlled.

 

The may be some EU funding available for that, they have already invested in the Power Station, transmission system and the storage heating in folks homes.

 

 

Snip...

 

Exactly how does a lamp fitted with a blown bulb, or with no bulb at all use electricity that the Hydro can justify billing the SIC for, oh great oracle?

 

...snip

 

The electricity supplier do not go around checking street lights for blown lamps. As you know, many of the existing lanterns are fitted with magnetic control gear, regardless of a lamp, their internal resistance uses electricity. The council tells the electricity supplier what it has connected. If you want to turn off completely the units, you would also need to remove them so as they cannot be connected again. There will be other policies that dictate street furniture, if you are not using it, remove it, leaving lamp columns and posts in the highway/pavements is pointless and removing them removes the risk of hitting them in the dark.

 

As I mentioned, there has not been any claims regarding street lamps but it does seem that turning them off causes some problems.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-27149452

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2513271/Warwickshire-County-Councils-decision-turn-street-lights-contributed-death-Archie-Wellbelove.html

 

 

But Mr Singleton, senior coroner for Blackburn, Hyndburn and the Ribble Valley, said those caught up in the ‘carnage’ after the incident would have had a chance of avoiding the debris if the lights were on.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11019438.Coroner_calls_for_M65_light_rethink_following_Burnley_man_s_death/?ref=mr

 

 

Despite the ruling by Avon Assistant Deputy Coroner Terrence Moore, Mr Heal said he still believes had the street lights been on, his son may not have lost his life.

http://www.itv.com/news/west/2012-08-23/soldiers-father-criticises-council/

 

There have been incidents where there were no streetlights at all, however, you want to change something, there will be issues.

[Ghostrider]

Not to me but it is to a profit orientated establishment.

 

Any profit orientated estabishment that doesn't talk nicely to a customer they're billing £195,000 per annum, is very likely to lose that £195,000 per annum, and even if you're as big as SSE, you don't like so many zeros before the decimal point suddenly vanishing off your balance sheet..

 

Out here in the sticks it wouldn't work, but up in the big city it would not be particularly difficult logistically for the council to generate their own electricity and supply not just their street lamps, but all council properties.....and the amount SSE would lose makes the £195,000 look like petty cash.

 

Anyone will quickly find they like the negotiation table very much, when they start feeling the hurt from the bite of not doing so.....all it takes is a smidgin of outside the box thinking like the kind thats quickly trained out of public servants as quickly as the system can banish it, but the rest of us who have to figure out where our next crust comes from all on our own, use all day every day.