100 Days to Scottish Independence Referendum

[Berserker]

I fully expect to hear Alex Salmonds resignation letter to be headline news on September 19th, so don't get me wrong, but he s the biggest mouthpiece or this seperatist malarky. Don't be surprised then if he takes the biggest hit for getting it so wrong. 

[brian.smith]

Well what ever way you are voting I think it will be closer than the polls suggest

[JustMe]

Whatever the result on September 19th there is still a Scottish Parliament election before independence could be in place.  Will be interesting to see what happens to the SNP vote whatever way the referendum goes.

[Ghostrider]

^ Is it not the other way around, Independence March '16, election May '16. Or have numerous sources been misinformed?

[brian.smith]

Is election not May next year Ghostie and Independance 18 months

Edited August 31, 2014 by brian.smith

[JustMe]

I stand corrected.  The next General Election is in 2015.  That could still be interesting as a guide to the way the Scottish election might go the following year.

[Who Knows]

NHS spend - David Cameron ordered by the Office of National Statistics (ONS) to stop saying NHS spend is up because official statistics from the Government's own statistian found health funds had fallen in real terms the Telegraph reported recently.

 

https://archive.today/OI7Hj

[shetlandpeat]

It would be difficult to spend more money on something you are quietly selling off for the simple fact there is less of it.

[JustMe]

My final thoughts on the indyref.  If Scotland votes Yes I imagine the UK government will keep its promises and there will be an independent Scotland.  But what id there is a No vote.  Yes in the short term I am sure that the extra powers promised will be devolved to Edinburgh but what of the long term.  Could a future UK government decide that Scotland was in a mess and remove all the devolved powers?.  After all devolution implies powers being cascaded down from the top.  Maybe there is not a word for it but I feel sure that the giver can take away those powers.  Just a thought.

[Ghostrider]

But what id there is a No vote.  Yes in the short term I am sure that the extra powers promised will be devolved to Edinburgh but what of the long term.  Could a future UK government decide that Scotland was in a mess and remove all the devolved powers?.

 

I'd argue that based on the performance of the last 15 years that it is already well advanced towards this stage, and quite enough in and of itself to justify denying any further devolution let alone independence.

[Kavi Ugl]

Absolutely GR.

 

This is NOT personal but did anybody else here this guy(SNP MSP Angus MacNeil) speaking on Radio Shetland tonight?.

 

I have rarely heard a more grating accent in my life(Western Isles English) but setting that aside it was just the usual SNP waffle.

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/newsbites/9220-promoting-yes

 

I'm heartened tonight though because I'm detecting signs that Shetland at least is going to see sense and vote NO.

[north]

The proposed separation of Scotland from England, displays many of the features of any of the former British Colonies as they departed from the Empire, when it was happening 50 or more years ago.

 

Essentially wealthy, resource rich, organized, educated, well governed and policed countries with a developed infrastructure and infinite possibilities for the future where handed over to their indigenous and democratically elected Governments with huge hopes for the future and goodwill from all sides.

 

These new Governments were filled with idealists, leaders, the educated and uneducated and many experienced professionals who genuinely desired to lead their Nations to independence and prosperity.

 

They promised unlimited wealth, freedom, opportunity and independence from their past.

 

Is that what happened?

 

No.

 

Invariably after the first generations of leaders disappeared (and sometimes before), the Countries slipped into the hands of opportunists and despots, driven by an unrelenting thirst for power, control and benefit for their friends, cohorts, supporters and families. To make this happen, it required the complicity of the military to enforce their strategies and goals, although quite often the military figured out that they actually marshalled the real control, and just took it over themselves, either removing democratic government entirely, or making it subservient to themselves.

 

To these ends, the system engendered making the players not only powerful, but also exceedingly rich. In order to maintain this control; corruption, nepotism and favourtism becomes rife. Poverty blossoms, as the wealth that should be used to benefit and grow the Nation, is syphoned off to benefit the priviliged few.

 

Education falters, as a strategy to ensure that an uneducated population will not rise to take over Government, but become more reliant on it to resolve their issues and dependent upon it for jobs and welfare.

 

The Military lack funding to maintain capability to defend the Nation (don't worry, someone will step in for free and protect us), but more importantly lack the capability to overthrow the Government. There is a significant risk of nepotism in the selection and training of future generations of Officers, as this is also a direct entry into senior Political, Government or Business opportunities. Police forces and other Government agencies become underfunded, leaving corruption and bribery as a daily matter of course in order to get anything done.

 

Medical resources slide as exisitng infrastructure becomes static and obscolete, diseases that were previously managed and controlled, again become endemic. Food production declines, nutrition rates falter - countries that previously had efficient management and production of food and crops, including exports, see them fail and they become dependent upon imported produce. 

 

These changes often terminally affect the business environment, and political disagreements may leave Nations without their traditional markets and suppliers, opening them to external influence by other foreign Governments, some of whom may not have altruistic motives. Try attempting to build a business market with no trading partners - one of the driving reasons for so many trade agreements today, and the reason for their priority. Many of the core businesses and services are also owned by the Government, and may either be maintained and run for their benefit, or spun off into the welcomong arms of their supporters and associates. 

 

Sliding GDP and GNP, with resultant losses in financial credibilty, creating havoc for local currencies that will depend upon artifical means to maintain values, potentially driving a currency black market and further devaluation. With the declining tax revenues from a shrinking economy, tax rates must increase, which invariably results in significantly greater tax avoidance, and an exodus of legitimate business interests. Plus, if the majority of your population are in poverty and paid low wages in cash - there is often no means to tax them at source anyway. 

 

Then you get to banking - so many issues beyond the creation and continued role of a Central Bank and a domestic currency, but also attracting commercial banks that have the assets, resources and connections to fund the needs of a Nation, whether in business or for the general population. Credibility in the world of commerce, is the key to any viable economy, just take a look at what happened to those who failed.

 

The advantages that so many of these newly formed Nations had, was that due to their geographical location and isolation, they had already developed indigenous, independent, capabilities for Governmment, Medicine, Law, Police, Military, Banking, etc. that were staffed by local citizens who were already in place, fully trained and just assumed control of an already functioning system. 

 

This is in no way a finite list of the hurdles to Independence, and in no way am I suggesting that what has happened in the past is a portent of the future of Scotland. But it would be a fool that hasn't balanced any view with reality and historical perspective.

 

And do you know where the most corrupt occurrences took place?

 

Anywhere where there is Oil; they promised the World on the back of controlling and harnessing an unlimited free resource!

Edited September 5, 2014 by north

[Who Knows]

Yes 51 No 49 in latest You Gov Poll for the Sunday Times, Sky News reports.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/suttonnick/status/508351949193109504

 

You Gov at one point gave the No campaign a 22% lead so not known as been sympathetic to Yes.

 

Meanwhile in project fear Labour Leader Ed Milliband is apparently going to create border post with guards according to the Mail on Sunday.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/suttonnick/status/508353303806504961/photo/1

[Kavi Ugl]

What stunned me today was the attitude on the Yes Shetland Facebook Page towards The Shetland Times for coming out as "No".

 

It was basically a case of "you traitors" and "you'll pay the price for this".

 

The thought that has occured to me as I've watched much of the Yes campaign is that if it's a Yes vote then anybody who voted No will be rounded up and shot at dawn.

[Ghostrider]

Meanwhile in project fear Labour Leader Ed Milliband is apparently going to create border post with guards according to the Mail on Sunday.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/suttonnick/status/508353303806504961/photo/1

 

He'll need them *if* Scotland goes independent without currency union, and *if* an independent Scotland becomes the bouyant, thriving economy the SNP predicts. Just to maintain some semblance of order on the crowds of Scots that will travel south and back north over it on shopping trips.