100 Days to Scottish Independence Referendum

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

OMG, why oh why hasn't Gretna been debated yet?  Err or has it?

[Wheelsup]

What will happen if the SNP get their independence?.

They won't be able to blame their woes on the English or the tories any more.

 Probably resort to fighting with each other and settling old scores, night of the long knives

[RugyDavy]

What will happen if the SNP get their independence?.

They won't be able to blame their woes on the English or the tories any more.

 Probably resort to fighting with each other and settling old scores, night of the long knives

What will happen is that the Scottish people will be able to vote for political parties who will be better placed to serve Scotland.

A YES vote isn't a vote for the SNP, (and it's not THEIR independence) its a referendum to make sure we get a fair representative political system with only ourselves to blame for the bad bits.

Vote YES and then, in 2016 you can be sure that whatever vote you cast, for whatever party you believe in in the first Scottish General Election will actually be worthwhile to the democratic process.

[Colin]

"A YES vote isn't a vote for the SNP, (and it's not THEIR independence) its a referendum to make sure we get a fair representative political system with only ourselves to blame for the bad bits.

Vote YES and then, in 2016 you can be sure that whatever vote you cast, for whatever party you believe in in the first Scottish General Election will actually be worthwhile to the democratic process".

 

A yes vote is not a vote for the SNP???

 

The whole idea, and the momentum behind the vote, is THEIR idea so, how can a yes vote NOT be a vote for the SNP?

 

What will happen in 2016 if we elect a different 'colour' of government? 

Will the new guys be as enthusiastic towards the idea or, will they 'shelve' the idea by way of long and protracted 'negotiations'?

Will they organise another referendum just to be sure that the Scottish People(?) really want independence?

Will they allow 16 year olds to vote?

 

It is worth remembering that the referendum question is "SHOULD Scotland be an Independent Country" not "WILL Scotland be........"

 

'Should' means nothing unless the will is there to drive it through.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Colin

[Scorrie]

What will happen if the SNP get their independence?.

They won't be able to blame their woes on the English or the tories any more.

 ......

 

Oh, they will.

 

For years they'll blame previous decisions by the Westminster government for all their troubles or as an excuse as to why they can't do something about any given situation..

 

Stand by for lots of "It wasnae us"........

[Ghostrider]

Vote YES and then, in 2016 you can be sure that whatever vote you cast, for whatever party you believe in in the first Scottish General Election will actually be worthwhile to the democratic process.

 

How?

 

So, what are you saying, That a vote in the long standing Westminster General Elections have all been worthless? That a vote in the Scottish Elections we've had during the last fifteen years have all been worthless?

 

We already have a Scottish Parliament, during its fifteen years its done nothing but harm as far as I can see, and Shetland has fared no better out of it than they've fared out of Westminster. Why would suddenly giving that same Scottish Parliament more things to mess with and screw up equate to voting in one of their elections as having more "worth"?

 

Fact is, Scotland votes predominantly Socialist (Labour and SNP), and that support is predominantly in the central belt. Post-independence, should it happen, Scotland will be for all intents and purposes a single party Socialist state. Either the various Socialist factions will fight among themselves, which will be fun to watch, but will destroy the country in the process, or they'll merge in to one unassailable Socialist super-party, which will ultimately be no good for anybody or anything, as absolute power corrupts.

 

For central belt Socialists, the above no doubt is viewed as close to a utopian outcome, and for the rest scattered around elsewhere a desirable outcome, so no doubt they can see their vote in a post-independence Scottish election as having "worth". However for anyone of any other political colour, the outcome resembles hell on earth, and they could very easily and understandable see their vote as worthless against such impregnable odds. Unlike Westminster, where there's at least a fighting chance most elections of a swing far enough right or left for a different colour to gain power and curb the destructive excesses of the other.

[brian.smith]

Ghostie where on the whole I agree with you I would say however its difficult to judge a Scottish Government based on how they manage a budget within the structure and rules handed out by a so called superior Parliament at Westminster.

I see what you are saying regarding a socialist state wouldn’t it be nice to actually have a Parliament where people debated and voted based on what their local electorate wanted rather than on party political lines.

[Ghostrider]

.....wouldn’t it be nice to actually have a Parliament where people debated and voted based on what their local electorate wanted rather than on party political lines.

 

Absolutely, but what's the chance of that happening in either the current or any future Scottish Parliament any more than it happens in Westminster.

 

Most SIC Councillors seem incapable of doing so, despite there (allegedly) being no party politics involved. So why expect it from those people who do stand under party colours elsewhere.

[Who Knows]

Common mistake the central belt myth as the map in the link shows every constituency south of Orkney till Dumbarton on the Clyde voted in an SNP MSP in the 2011 Scottish Parliamentary election so it is not a central belt run parliament.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_general_election,_2011#/image/File:Scottish_Parliament_election_2011_map.svg

 

The first two Scottish parliaments had the Shetland Liberal Democrat elected MSP in the Government holding office. A record he said he was proud to defend at the recent BBC Shetland Debate. In addition in the first Parliament our MP was elected as the MSP for Orkney and as leader of the Liberal Democratic's held the post of Deputy First Minister.

 

If you think your elected representative holding such power failed to deliver meaningful change for Shetland then respectively I would suggest a change is required and the local media need to hold our elected representatives to account rather than being their mouth piece.

[Kavi Ugl]

 

 

A YES vote isn't a vote for the SNP, (and it's not THEIR independence) its a referendum to make sure we get a fair representative political system with only ourselves to blame for the bad bits.

Vote YES and then, in 2016 you can be sure that whatever vote you cast, for whatever party you believe in in the first Scottish General Election will actually be worthwhile to the democratic process.

 

But that's the problem - there is no "we" or "ourselves" about it.

 

Shetland may, by a leash, be under Scottish Law just now but the simple truth is that Shetland and Scotland are two seperate entities historically, culturally and politically.

 

The SNP will hold the reigns in the event of a Yes vote for approx two years but they have offered absolutely nothing to Shetland.  All Nicola Sturgeon could say was that "we need independance to hand those powers down" but refused to even say what it would be. 

 

It was total evasion and for me it's a deeply ominous sign that they have no intention of giving anything to Shetland.

 

Also, those 2 years will give the Red Brigade the time to form a new Socialist Party that will blow the SNP out of the water and sweep into "power" at the first elections.

 

Make no mistake, from what I've seen many if not most of the Yes supporters are looking for a new Socialist State.  

 

And yet, the warning signs are already there from previous socialist incarnations.  Remember how the SSP was torn apart with in-fighting and splits?. 

 

Shetland's Political Leaders need to get the finger out NOW and start planning for what we are going to do if there is a No vote from Shetland but a Yes vote from Scotland on the 18th September.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Kavi Ugl

[brian.smith]

 

.....wouldn’t it be nice to actually have a Parliament where people debated and voted based on what their local electorate wanted rather than on party political lines.

 

Absolutely, but what's the chance of that happening in either the current or any future Scottish Parliament any more than it happens in Westminster.

 

Most SIC Councillors seem incapable of doing so, despite there (allegedly) being no party politics involved. So why expect it from those people who do stand under party colours elsewhere.

 

I could say whats the chance of it happening in the status quo I dont know just saying it would be nice for real change

[Who Knows]

This Shetland News article sums up and compare the offer to Shetland on future developments if you vote Yes or No.

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/features/scottish-independence-debate/9088-westminster-s-offer-leaves-out-seabed-income

 

Basically there is more on offer from voting Yes.

 

If you want full autonomy for Shetland then someone needs to stand in the 2015 UK General Election on that ticket with a clear prospectus of what they are proposing so we the electorate can vote upon it and clearly demonstrate the level of demands of these islands on this issue.

 

Unfortunately just posting on this website does not get you what you want.

[tonydog]

Love b Smith comments on a parliament voting

How many of the snp members turned up this week to vote on one of there favourite topic the bedroom tax

Was it 2 out of 6

And the last vote in the Scottish parliament was a vote on removing tridant

IF it was a yes vote ,so that was a vote for something that might never happen , no wonder 1 in 4 children are in poverty

Two lost chance for utopia two more

[Who Knows]

All the fuss over the Sunday Times poll today but there was also one released from on-line website mumsnet.

 

http://www.mumsnet.com/politics/mumsnetters-on-scottish-referendum

 

Amongst their users eligible to vote the poll including the do not knows was Yes 48%, No 41% and do not know 11%.

 

Other findings from their poll is on the link.

[Ghostrider]

Common mistake the central belt myth as the map in the link shows every constituency south of Orkney till Dumbarton on the Clyde voted in an SNP MSP in the 2011 Scottish Parliamentary election so it is not a central belt run parliament.

 

That's as maybe, but one swallow a summer does not make. All it proves is that much of Scotland is 'open to persuasion'/'willing to gamble' once in a while, and this parliament just happens to have seen that drift in the SNP's direction. *If* the SNP can sustain similar results in future elections, that's one thing, but at the moment it cannot be taken as particularly indicative of anything, as if the electorate can swing toward the SNP one time, there's an equal chance they'll swing somewhere else next time.

 

The voting results which created the current Scottish Parliament give the SNP a clear mandate to propose independence for Scotland, there's no dispute in that. What cannot be relied on however is that when it comes to more life-changing matters such as severing connections with another nation, or electing a government with absolute power, that many of the persuaded or gamblers will be so gung ho. Human nature tends to ensure that when the chips are down folk prefer to opt for what the know, and based on longer term historical voting that puts socialist support essentially for the greatest part in the central belt, and the further north you go the less likely you will be to have a representative in a position to make a difference, in a Parliament that cannot avoid, for the foreseeable future not have socialist leanings.

 

The first two Scottish parliaments had the Shetland Liberal Democrat elected MSP in the Government holding office. A record he said he was proud to defend at the recent BBC Shetland Debate. In addition in the first Parliament our MP was elected as the MSP for Orkney and as leader of the Liberal Democratic's held the post of Deputy First Minister.

 

If you think your elected representative holding such power failed to deliver meaningful change for Shetland then respectively I would suggest a change is required and the local media need to hold our elected representatives to account rather than being their mouth piece.

 

I never said anything about our representative delivering meaningful change or otherwise, I said we'd done no better out of Edinburgh than we'd done out of Westminster. Completely different thing.