matlo Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Alex Salmond's demise is a fascinating development. It all looks far too well-rehearsed to have been a spur of the moment decision. It must have been an SNP plan for the event of a defeat in the referendum. It looks aimed to draw the fire of a lot of the Scottish opposition - they have pushed the line of attacking Salmond personally for years and it may mean that the blame for the referendum failure will be attached to him rather than his party and allow Sturgeon a chance to take over for another push sooner rather than later. (Especially, as Kavi suggests, since Westminster will undoubtedly renege on any real reform of government for any part of the UK.) I don't think Salmond would have continued long in any case. If he'd won then he'd have had his moment of glory, achieved his lifetime aim and probably have bowed out after negotiating independence with Westminster. From his point of view he couldn't have bettered the achievement - especially by heading a government that would have had to deal with a lot of unpopular decisions. He's a politician after all, he'll do what they all try to do and what he'd have done anyway - go off to make a lot of money on the back of his political career before he gets too old to accumulate a few million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Despite having voted No I do feel some sort of sympathy not only for Alec Salmond but for the many people who have worked for years towards the aim of an independent Scotland. And despite being against the idea myself I do feel that the Yes camp were ganged up against by the other Westminster parties. Not only that but I have a feeling that a lot of Westminster politicians could really not care two hoots for Scotland but they want to keep hold of the oil. Maybe you might ask why I voted no. In the end it was that I believed that it was just too hard to separate so many UK organisations into UK and Scottish organisations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavi Ugl Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) I've just been reading some of the comments on the Yes Shetland Facebook page and frankly they're disgusting and make me glad I voted No. There's a new thread with photos of some empty streets in Lerwick with sarcastic comments like "too ashamed to show their faces", "they should hang there heads in shame", "least there is 33% of us has a back bone in Shetland", "There having fun in the fields wi the sheep" and calling us "Traitor Scum"....... And they wonder why we didn't vote Yes...... Edited September 19, 2014 by Kavi Ugl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distortio Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 got to expect some stroppy comments after something like this. could be worse, they could be doing nazi salutes in george square... celebrating the old fashioned way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavi Ugl Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Distortio, those horrible comments smack of sectarian hatred which has no place in Shetland...... Meanwhile, it looks like the tinderbox is opening..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29287409 Edited September 19, 2014 by Kavi Ugl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgonzola Butt-cheese Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I agree with this piece from the guardian comments "The best thing to come out from all of this is a revolt against centralization and centralized power. The politicians and their corporate backers want us to think we need them and their centralized power. We don't need them, nowhere near as much as they like. Independence movements must spread and people need to take control of their own affairs. Cumbersome constructs like the EU, and all centralized movements that the globalists desperately cling onto, I hope will give way to localized movements. Localization is the future, not centralization. We don't need centralized power, we can rule ourselves much better than any of these sociopaths can ever dream of. Out with Top-Down management, and in with Bottom-Up management! Westminster has been warned. This is only the beginning." I also wonder what Carmichael will say in the future on this "http://www.shetnews.co.uk/features/scottish-independence-debate/9311-carmichael-says-shetland-could-go-it-alone" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distortio Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Distortio, those horrible comments smack of sectarian hatred which has no place in Shetland...... wtf you on about? that's a pic from tonight. the bt unionist crowd. off out, laters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavi Ugl Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Distortio, those horrible comments smack of sectarian hatred which has no place in Shetland...... wtf you on about? that's a pic from tonight. the bt unionist crowd. off out, laters. The comments on Yes Shetland..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Distortio, those horrible comments smack of sectarian hatred which has no place in Shetland...... wtf you on about? that's a pic from tonight. the bt unionist crowd. off out, laters. And you believe that this is a representative view of 55% of the electorate in Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 A lot of the Yes supporters I know are acting like overgrown children who have had their toys snatched away. Not in my nature to gloat but, if ever anybody needed to be gloated at.?? Lets face it, they puffed up their image by sticking posters and banners anywhere they could to try and create an impression of massive support and, in the end, tripped and fell flat on their faces.. Having said that, there are now 1.6 million disgruntled voters in Scotland and, that is a problem. Maybe it will die down or, maybe the cracks will widen. It's going to take some pretty astute and honest politics from a 'statesman' to sort it out and, I don't believe that the Tories/Labour/Liberal leadership is up to the challenge. Kavi Ugl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Distortio, those horrible comments smack of sectarian hatred which has no place in Shetland...... wtf you on about? that's a pic from tonight. the bt unionist crowd. off out, laters. Maybe best not attack a few 'No' supporters at the Cross while you're gone, unless yer balaclava is a good un - the CCTV may be crap, but one of the Tourist webcams has no bad resolution footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I've just been reading some of the comments on the Yes Shetland Facebook page and frankly they're disgusting and make me glad I voted No. There's a new thread with photos of some empty streets in Lerwick with sarcastic comments like "too ashamed to show their faces", "they should hang there heads in shame", "least there is 33% of us has a back bone in Shetland", "There having fun in the fields wi the sheep" and calling us "Traitor Scum"....... And they wonder why we didn't vote Yes...... Kavi I've just had two posts pulled off the FB 'Yes Shetland' thread you refer to above for criticising the attitude of some of the Yes crowd to those who choose to disagree with them. I pointed out to them that they lost votes because the idiot uncensored faction of the Yes camp could not help but destroy any faith in them by the undecided by referring to anyone who questions or who is unsure about which way to vote as 'feart', 'tories' and 'traitors'. I got my posts binned within minutes. Saor Alba? My effin ass. And you know what the really laughable part of it all is, Kavi? I was one of those who voted 'Yes'. So those turtleheads cannot even stand constructive criticism from within their own camp. I've been vehemently opposed to how the 'yes' camp have allowed there social media campaign to be dominated by bigoted, spiteful and ignorant factions right from the very start. I've been howled down by friends, accused of being a 'Rangers supporting Unionist' and been patronised from the outset, all because i have questioned what some Indy folk have posted. Now, I'm pretty thick skinned, but did those clowns honestly think that most people were going to change their mind after being hectored and bullied for disagreeing? Absolutely not. The Indy movement have thrown away the best chance they have ever had, partially because they let the ugly side of the debate continue unchecked. You reap what you sow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavi Ugl Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Scorrie, I'm vexed to hear yon but that was a common complaint from the start - you weren't even allowed to question or disagree with them. Ken something?. If the whole issue had been handled better and Shetland had been treated with some respect and given concrete, meaningful promises relating to Home Rule I just might have voted Yes. Not so much for Scotland, but for Shetland's sake. For the record, I believe Scotland itself should be an independant country, but just don't feel Shetland should be part of it. For me, the Yes Shetland Facebook Page did more harm than good in relation to Shetland. One wonders just how many of the No voters were actually supportive of an Independant Scotland but were repelled by the antics and aggression of the "Braveheart" mob. Could it be that this cost them the referendum?. Yes, I believe so....... Edited September 19, 2014 by Kavi Ugl Scorrie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuckleJoannie Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 An interesting article by Nick Robinson about the fall out from the referendum for the UK as a whole http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29287472 A vote to reject massive constitutional change in one part of the UK has triggered a debate about just that in every part of it.The man without whom this might never have happened - Alex Salmond - is quitting ensuring that that debate does indeed happen without him as Scotland's leader.Those who filled the streets of Glasgow and Dundee and Perth with flags and chants and protests have lost yet they may trigger a process with the potential to deliver a little of the change they dreamt of.The reason is clear - this referendum was not simply about national identity or self-government - it became a vote on the way power is exercised from Westminster - and one the establishment could so easily have lost.For years constitutional change obsessed and excited a certain breed of political activist and bored pretty much everyone else. Remember the disinterest in the referendum on changing the voting system or the debates on reform of the House of Lords.Now, though, it will be the focus of election contests in which rivals parties and rival leaders compete to be seen to be standing up for the interests of their people and their country. And this is what Alistair Carmichael thinks http://www.shetnews.co.uk/features/scottish-independence-debate/9327-carmichael-a-federal-uk-is-inevitable Less than 24 hours after more than 80 per cent of the Scottish electorate voted decisively against independence, Carmichael told Shetland News that new powers to raise taxes and distribute welfare would be devolved to the Scottish Parliament after the general election next May.This, he said, would unlock the key to a federal UK as it would create a constitutional imbalance between Scotland and the rest of Britain that would have to be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 One wonders just how many of the No voters were actually supportive of an Independant Scotland but were repelled by the antics and aggression of the "Braveheart" mob. Could it be that this cost them the referendum?. Yes, I believe so....... Maybe we should start calling it 'anti-social media'.... Scorrie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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