Air Travel Paranoia

[Evil Inky]

It would be hard for any country that manufactures and exports arms not be involved in any conflict, world-wide.

 

And it is for exactly this reason arms dealing is such an obscene trade.

 

( Mark Thomas once said he'd love to walk up to an arms dealer, punch him on the nose, and then say "If I didn't do it, someone else would!" )

[Distortio]

i was under the impression the reason given for invading iraq was initially the presence of WMD and the infamous 45 minute claim. all the chemical weapons we sold them in the 80's expired long ago, and the other WMD we heard so much about never appeared, so as a face-saving measure we were told it was never about WMD, it was about regime change. either way the case for war was certainly exaggerated. then it transpires it had all been planned for some time:

 

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

 

could explain why the bush administration were so keen to link saddam to 9/11? he also committed the cardinal sin of switching to trading in euros rather than dollars which seemed to upset certain sensibilities. maybe any economists among us could clarify why? is it just coincidence that the large oil producing nations have come under the 'terrorist radar'? working backwards here, but immediately following the afghanistan invasion have a looky what happens:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1984459.stm

 

the same pipeline the soviets wanted to build and went to war with afghanistan for 10 years over...

 

 

oh yeah, aeroplanes... i'm always suspicious of such heavy things staying in the sky...

[JAStewart]

i was under the impression the reason given for invading iraq was initially the presence of WMD and the infamous 45 minute claim. all the chemical weapons we sold them in the 80's expired long ago, and the other WMD we heard so much about never appeared, so as a face-saving measure we were told it was never about WMD, it was about regime change. either way the case for war was certainly exaggerated. then it transpires it had all been planned for some time:

 

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

 

With things like the downing street memo, its hard not to think what else the governments not telling us.

[McFly]

I've already given myself a talking to for taking this thread off topic, so I'll have no qualms about sternly admonishing you three

 

Talk about "Air Travel Paranoia" or take it elsewhere. Thank you.

[Distortio]

soz

 

i haven't flown for years, more due to finances than paranoia (though i did have an unpleasantly hungover flight back from aberdeen...) but if i had more wonga i'd have no qualms.

 

i aint afraid of no jumpers.

[BlackEagle]

It was the fact that these two travellers were wearing thick woolly jumpers and leather jackets (while the other passengers were dressed in t-shirts and shorts), and were constantly checking their watches that aroused the other passenger's' suspicions.

 

I don't think that racism came into it, merely self-preservation.

 

These passengers were just doing what the security people has told everyone to do--being alert, just like the people who stopped the "shoe bomber". Who knows, maybe the two passengers were doing a "dry run"--they would never confess to it if they were and the cries of "we are victims of racism" make a good smokescreen.

As for character typing or whatever it is, the leaders of these people should make it their business to not only disclaim anything to do with it, and do all in thier power to stop it; they should also actively seek out and stop the ones that are recruiting and teaching new suicide bombers. That would be as effective way of saying they are for peace as anything else they could do.

[Claudias]

[quote name="BlackEagle"

As for character typing or whatever it is' date=' the leaders of these people should make it their business to not only disclaim anything to do with it, and do all in thier power to stop it; they should also actively seek out and stop the ones that are recruiting and teaching new suicide bombers. That would be as effective way of saying they are for peace as anything else they could do.[/quote]

 

They pay the same taxes as us. We rely on the police and security forces, those taxes provide, to seek out the ones recruiting so should not they be able to do the same?

First cast out the mote in thine own eye.

[Ghostrider]

As for character typing or whatever it is, the leaders of these people should make it their business to not only disclaim anything to do with it, and do all in thier power to stop it; they should also actively seek out and stop the ones that are recruiting and teaching new suicide bombers. That would be as effective way of saying they are for peace as anything else they could do.

 

They pay the same taxes as us. We rely on the police and security forces, those taxes provide, to seek out the ones recruiting so should not they be able to do the same?

First cast out the mote in thine own eye.

 

Yes, they should, and they do, but you have to question their sincerity for the Police and security services to do so, when they are in a far more advantageous position to assist in that search than anyone else, but don't appear to be doing so. Additionally, they are also in a far more advantageous position to influence the potential recruits to other ways of highlighting greviances, but again seem to be failing to do so.

 

That said, if you want to continue this debate, we need a new thread, this is so far off topic the Mods will be fit for tying.

[BlackEagle]

That said, if you want to continue this debate, we need a new thread, this is so far off topic the Mods will be fit for tying.

 

Thanks for that; I was trying to get back on the thread, hence the quote from early on in the thread, but got myself lost again.

[Ghostrider]

That said, if you want to continue this debate, we need a new thread, this is so far off topic the Mods will be fit for tying.

 

Thanks for that; I was trying to get back on the thread, hence the quote from early on in the thread, but got myself lost again.

 

It's not easy to address only the "Air Travel" aspect of this one without also slipping in to the much broader picture. Air Travel is certainly where paranoia is at it's maximum, the top of the heap, but the very same reasons that fuel it filter right down to every aspect of life, trains have already been targeted, and potentially anything or anyone anywhere *could* become a target if a would be terrorist saw what to them was a "good enough" reason. Maybe the thread should simply be renamed "Terrorist Paranoia" instead, and let it encompass what it will.

[Evil Inky]

These passengers were just doing what the security people has told everyone to do--being alert, just like the people who stopped the "shoe bomber". Who knows, maybe the two passengers were doing a "dry run"--they would never confess to it if they were and the cries of "we are victims of racism" make a good smokescreen.

I think you'd change your tune pretty quickly if it was you that got hauled off a flight due to other people's paranoia. Don't think it could happen to you ? It wasn't that long ago Irish people were treated like this, and many English people can't distinguish between Irish and Scottish accents. ( See the Harry Stanley case for a tragic example. )

[junior]

When was the last terrorist threat which didn't come from young male muslim?....

 

 

A good many male muslims have been gaoled on suspicion. How many have been found guilty of any crime?

 

Dodgy anti-terror laws are an entirely different matter. My point was that if airport security aren't more suspicious of Muslims than non-Muslims, then they aren't doing their job properly. Thats not paranoia, its a logical conclusion to events over the last 5 years.

 

When was the last terrorist threat which didn't come from young male muslim?

 

 

When was the last time a muslim country was terrorised by anything other than a gang of thousands of young, male "christians"?

 

As you've realised this is taking things a bit off topic. These are vastly different types of terrorism, regardless of whether either is right or wrong. The type I was referring to was the type that affects my air travel. For what its worth, I think you have the right way of looking at the bigger picture.

[Pooks]

My point was that if airport security aren't more suspicious of Muslims than non-Muslims, then they aren't doing their job properly. Thats not paranoia, its a logical conclusion to events over the last 5 years.

 

I would have to disagree. If airport security aren't suspicious of everyone then they aren't doing their job properly.

 

Airport security isn't a highly paid job, yet they have to try and do the job of the secret service...

 

If the government was so worried by terrorist threats they would have highly paid/highly trained staff situated in every UK airport.

 

This begs the question, "Where does it all end?". Before long everybody that is allowed to step outside their house will have to be MI5....just incase...

[Ghostrider]

These passengers were just doing what the security people has told everyone to do--being alert, just like the people who stopped the "shoe bomber". Who knows, maybe the two passengers were doing a "dry run"--they would never confess to it if they were and the cries of "we are victims of racism" make a good smokescreen.

I think you'd change your tune pretty quickly if it was you that got hauled off a flight due to other people's paranoia. Don't think it could happen to you ? It wasn't that long ago Irish people were treated like this, and many English people can't distinguish between Irish and Scottish accents. ( See the Harry Stanley case for a tragic example. )

 

To each his own by all means, but if there were a faction of individuals committing and/or attempting to commit the acts of violence that a faction of Muslim/Asians are doing , but who's identity was known no more than they were Shetlanders, Scots, British, European, Caucasian, or whatever other grouping that I could be also considered to be one of, I would not be surprised if sooner or later I was asked to leave a flight due to anothers paranoia, in fact I'd half expect it to happen sooner rather than later. Were it to happen it would certainly annoy me, but I wouldn't be annoyed at the person(s) who's paranoia I was a victim of, rather I'd be annoyed at the people who's actions prior to that time had been the catalyst for creating that paranoia, unless of course I was an active participant in those actions, a supporter of them, or at the very least sympathetic to some of the principles and/or aims of the actions.

 

If I was neither a participant, a supporter, or sympathetic to the "cause", I certainly would be doing what I could to prevent further action(s) which would be likely to only intensify that paranoia. Attacking the person(s) who are suffering the paranoia, or to play the "victim" is simply dealing with the monkey, if you want to make a change you have to deal with the organ grinder, the people who's actions generated the fear that led to people becoming paranoid.

 

The fact that public perception in general is that the wider Muslim/Asian community are doing little to nothing to denounce, distance itself from or strive to identify the small number within themsleves that are intent on indiscriminate violence and destruction, leads a significant portion of the non Muslim/Asian public to believe that those actions and those committing them have significant support and sympathy throughout the entire Muslim/Asian community, hence a significant portion of the non-Muslim/Asian public view all Muslims/Asians in the light, "Is (s)he a sympathiser, a supporter, or a terrorist?"

[Ghostrider]

My point was that if airport security aren't more suspicious of Muslims than non-Muslims, then they aren't doing their job properly. Thats not paranoia, its a logical conclusion to events over the last 5 years.

If the government was so worried by terrorist threats they would have highly paid/highly trained staff situated in every UK airport.

 

The UK government aren't worried about terrorist threats beyond their own individual personal safety, and job security, particularly their job security after the next election, whenever that may be.

 

They are doing only as much as gives the media enough to report, that the people who swallow the production line pap and propaganda corporate media giants pump out, are appeased, "reassured", and keep reasonably quiet. Lip service, no more, no less, just enough to convince enough people that they are "taking care of everything" which gets those folks to put a mark next to their name on the next ballot.

 

The public are worried about terrorist threats, but as long as they stand by and allow airport security to run on a shoestring and be paid peanuts, they will get the kind of service peanuts buy.