Scorrie Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Kavi. Are you saying that all those on the list are recent incomers/furriners - based solely upon what their surname is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 apart from drink driving most assualts are drink related. theft is roughly 50/50. obviously if you import loads of single young men for whatever reason they will commit more crime than a settled person. but it does not make them more of a risk. i would say if they feel settled then they are local. a lot of crime is caused by repeat offenders. even most of them will reform themselves as they become older. kavi i hope your not suggesting locals dont do crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanofNess Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Kavi. Are you saying that all those on the list are recent incomers/furriners - based solely upon what their surname is? Certainly what he's inferring but anyone who can't trace lineage back past Thorfinn Ravenshagger the Bold isn't a Shetlander anyway. Roachmill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BigMouth Posted February 9, 2015 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Back to the subject, and to give the BNP voters and other racists a chance to have a rest... Carrying Knives As a child we all carried pocket knives, usually old and battered folding knives handed on by our fathers or grandfathers when they thought we were sensible enough. There would be a thick blade and probably a tool for getting stones out of horses hooves. We would get a quick lesson in how to use it safely and off we would go. All the lads had bikes in those days and most of our spare time was spent out on our bikes, usually cycling to the woods to play. We might make a track to cycle around the woods or get our knives out and cut a few branches to make a den. Chop up an apple to share between us and perhaps one of us would have an illicit fag to share around. If it started raining we would shelter in the den as best as possible and have a competition wittling sticks into some amusing shapes. There were accidents, someone would slice a gash in their finger, but they just pressed on it with their dirty fingers until it stopped bleeding and got on with it; nobody died. The only thing that we had to remember was getting home in time for tea. We had socialised with our mates, got some fresh air into our lungs and a bit of exercise. Using the knives gave us a boost to tool handling skills and hand eye co-ordination. All in all a good day out. Of course I am not suggesting it was a land of milk and honey. We all had TB and rickets, but we were happy! I worked in a company a couple of decades ago. The "ooh look, he's carrying a knife" culture was already in force by then. Almost every entry in the company's accident book was regarding a Stanley knife injury. On a routine visit of a health and safety executive employee the accident book was inspected, and the inevitable question was asked, "why is this company having so many knife accidents". The answer was that despite the health and safety briefing (we never had those as kids) people cut themselves because they used knives so infrequently. I always carry a knife. It's usually a multi-bladed Swiss Army knife on most occasions. The blades are about 2 inches in length, which make them only so useful. If you want to cut a piece of fruit in half with a diameter of more than 4 inches, there isn't going to be an easy way of doing it, but for many other tasks the blades and tools come in useful. Scissors for trimming off loose threads, screwdrivers, orange peeler, wire trimmer and bottle opener for that lunchtime bottle of cider on a rare hot day, but obviously not outdoors in Lerwick. If we all did it the legal system could be brought crashing down! In an office environment it is surprising how often you see people struggling to unwrap a packet of photocopier paper. Long gone are the days of the paper being wrapped in a large sheet of paper with the seams glued. We have now advanced onto the paper being wrapped in plastic and heat-sealed. Seing a colleague struggling with one of these packets I offer my assistance, if accepted I whip out my knife and slice through the heat-sealing and pass the packet back to them. Otherwise extremely intelligent colleagues have been known to look shocked and ask why on earth I am carrying a knife. They usually look downcast when I tell them it is to open packets of photocopier paper that no-one seems able to get into. I have a collection of knives that I divide into two categories: - * Legal to carry without a reason - having a folding, non-locking blade where the cutting edge of the blade does not exceed 3 inches.* Legal to carry with a reason - having a folding blade that exceeds 3 inches that has or does not have a locking mechanism, or a fixed blade. Where you need a reason for carrying a knife, due to the blade length, the locking mechanism or the fact that the blade is fixed, those reasons could be many and varied. A carpet fitter on their way to work, at work or on his way home would have a perfect reason for carrying a Stanley knife. If they were to go to the pub straight from work then they would be foolish to carry a knife, because Plod could argue there was no reason for the knife being carried; leave it in the van. A person camping and wanting to gather wood for fires as they move from site to site would have good reason for carrying a fixed blade knife. An electrician or other tradesperson would have good reason for carrying a Leatherman tool with locking blades to, from or at work, but again, not in the pub after work. The Scot dressed in his kilt could quite legally carry his sgian dubh. I would recommend everyone to carry a knife, at all times, that is legal to carry without reason, except in places where drink is involved, or in sensitive places like airports etc. If you car spins out of control and you end up upside down in a ditch and unable to release your seatbelt, you might be glad of the penknife in your pocket that allows you to slice through the seatbelt. You might also come across the scene of an accident where someone is in the same position, but without the foresight to carry a knife. You have the opportunity to save them with a knife in your pocket. Life is usually much more routine that this though, and you are likely to find much more routine uses of your knife, such as opening packets of photocopier paper or impregnable packaging containing everything from biscuits to crisps and cameras. In this age of everything being subject to too much health and safety interference (have you risk assessed using that pencil?) it amazes me that the unlocked blade that is likely to close up on your fingers will be in the knife that you don't need a reason to carry, yet the pointy headed people will want to know why you are carrying the much safer locking knife. There is a lot of misinformation about knives. It is sad to see it being spread in the Shetland News. I wonder what motivates those who perpetuate this misinformation? Inevitably there always will be the muppet who waves around a knife or any other tool in a threatening manner, and those that do deserve what comes their way. If a copper wants to confiscate your knife then there is little point resisting they will have the law on their side, or so they imagine. If your knife doesn't need a reason to be carried, and you haven't been waving it around like a prat, then let the copper know that the knife is UK legal carry. One thing that the Law doesn't like it someone who knows it better than them so your knife will be going in the copper's pocket. Make sure you get a receipt for it, fully detailing the knife, then at the earliest opportunity go and have a word with the desk sergeant, in the few hours a day that police stations are open, and ask for the knife to be returned to you. Being one of greater wisdom than the Law's representative that you met on the street earlier, he will probably return it without problem, otherwise you will need to line a solicitor's pocket with a bit more money, or let a miscarriage of justice continue, or even represent yourself (section 139 in England and Wales, section 40 in Scotland). Knife amnesties are another one of those opportunites to take perfectly legal knives out of circulation. Take my advice and don't join in. What you have now may be worth a small fortune now or perhaps in the future, due in part to the popularity of knife amnesties. The final irony is that the servants of Sherrifs continue to be weaponised with telescopic batons, pepper sprays, tasers and firearms! Ghostrider, Scorrie and George. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The final irony is that the servants of Sherrifs continue to be weaponised with telescopic batons, pepper sprays, tasers and firearms! The first rule of war, tool up your army while disarming your opponent's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavi Ugl Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Kavi. Are you saying that all those on the list are recent incomers/furriners - based solely upon what their surname is? More or less, yes. And, no, I'm not saying that native folk don't commit crime. What I'm saying is that Shetland seems to attract a lot of people who just end up causing trouble. Edited February 9, 2015 by Kavi Ugl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 youngmen yes but then can we say that the drinking culture up here has a lot to blame. just look at last weeks court cases nearly all were related to drinking. the fact that youngmen and some not so young need to be smashed out of there heads to have fun is an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanofNess Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well some folk can handle drink and some folk can't. Shetland's biggest problem with drink is getting it into the younger generations heads that they don't have to start at 14 and it isn't a requirement for attending social events. I'm no hypocrit I drank underage but it never took a grip of me like it did some of my contemporaries and I knew when to stop. Best thing that could happen to the isles is responsible adults start behaving responsibly and stop bairns drinking until an age that a grain of with might have taken seed. The unfortunate thing is plenty of underage drinkers are doing with their folks consent and that's alright if their monitoring it and stopping someone chugging a litre of vodka. On the original topic It's fair to say anyone heading down the pub should leave their blade at home or in their vehicle so it doesn't become a temptation to be drawn if fisticuffs ensue over an argument about who gets to order their baked tattie and cheese first. Like the OP I also carry a blade, short enough to be legal but I'm sure if stopped by John Law they'd be asking questions for why I have it (cutting string when setting stuff out if folks must know). I learned my knife skills in the Cubs of all places and having to behave responsibly with a blade meant I got a lovely badge for my efforts. Lady Hilvergal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 "The first rule of war, tool up your army while disarming your opponent's." Also the first rule of peace(?). Disarm the population to make controlling them easier. Stalin did it, Hitler did it... Etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Kavi. Are you saying that all those on the list are recent incomers/furriners - based solely upon what their surname is? More or less, yes........ I call bullpoop, Kavi.I'm certainly not going to drag people's names in to this, but I found it amusing that I know one of the guys on the list (who doesn't have a surname that meets with your ideal of ethnic purity) is definitely a born and bred Shetlander. And you actually quoted one case with someone with a very, very, local name............. Still, hey ho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Come on Scorrie. You found 2 names out of quite a long list and you want to use that to justify your position? Maybe there are more than two in there but, I'm inclined to think that, generally speaking, quite a high number of local court cases appear to revolve around 'incomers' who seem to be here for 'no good reason' (not working, chemical dependencies etc.) other than to 'milk the system' in the 'land of milk and honey'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Well, if someone can be selective when applying blame, then so can I. To me, it's all just narrow-minded pish. I could put forward the argument that was referred to earlier on: That many of these incidents would be off the court radar a few years ago as they would be resolved with a swift knuckle sarnie. Or, sadly, in the case of domestic violence simply covered up and 'ignored' and 'accepted' by those involved and their immediate community. The one point I will concede is that drug-related crime is a relatively new phenomenon - and that is definitely a Sooth-Mooth imported problem. But I wonder how much alcohol related crime was going unreported in the Isles back in the halcyon days when 'Soothies' weren't allegedly coming here and sullying the idyllic lifestyle of 100% peaceful, law-abiding, non-judgemental local poluation with their jive music and beatnik haircuts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) we need to examine the news from the 1950s-early 1970s to see what crime was like then http://www.shetland-museum.org.uk/downloads/data/unkans/Unkans_no33.pdf a bit earlier but still violence Judicial Declaration by Robert Aitken (16), junior, unmarried, son of and residing with Robert Aitken senior, for theft (now admitting to the crime). Date 15 January 1861 Judicial Declaration by Magnus Sinclair, (20), unmarried, labourer, 10 Fox Lane, Lerwick, for theft (now admits to the crime).2 January 1882Judicial Declaration by Peter Johnston, (18), unmarried, Freefield, Lerwick, for theft, (now admits to the crime).2 January 1882Report concerning breach of Prevention of Crime Act 1871 by Charles M. Anderson, stoneware merchant, Lerwick, after purchasing goods from John Gourock or Gordon.29 December 1887 Report against Samuel Anderson, of no fixed residence, for Assault on Kate Clark, Lower Lochside, Lerwick. Accused has been previously convicted of similar crime.13 October 1903 Letter by Thomas Robertson, Stove: 'The awfull crime of theft has arisin to such a height here, as renders it intolerable to be borne'.30 May 1838 'Prosecutions under Yell Sheep Dipping Order 1913' (fine of £5 against David Moar was out of proportion to his crime) i wonder if we could see a modern day translation of the 1604 law book refered to.may make interesting reading Edited February 11, 2015 by paulb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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