Shetland Home Company

[Colin]

"That's just it! You have no wisdom. Your just empty headed bigots"

 

It always amuses me that whenever an "emotive" subject comes up, someone tries to stifle free and open discussion and impose their own blinkered(?) point of view scattering insults like confetti...  Surprised that they didn't call anyone "Nazi's".

 

I have to confess that my views of Cope are from the outside and my knowledge of the operation is limited but, I am broadly supportive of everything they do although that does not mean that I am going to "sing from the same sheet" and accept it all as "gospel".

 

It's all about "perception" and, I reserve the right to question anything and everything I want.

 

As an aside and (almost) completely irrelevant;

I do, however, have considerable experience of working with handicapped people.   My wife had a brother who was severely handicapped and, during my teenage years through to my late twenties, as a volunteer, I helped to run a youth club that made a deliberate point of including handicapped people.  It was amazing to see the quantity that "appeared" from the surrounding district.  A complete eye-opener as, day to day, they were kept out of sight and, largely, invisible.

 

Anyway;

It's "good" that Cope put handicapped and disabled people where us "normal" types can see them.

It's "good" that Cope can give some of them something to do.

It's "good" that they can provide some kind of "occupational therapy"(?)

It's "good" that they can provide some kind of "respite" for parents/guardians.

It's "good" that they can do all this with the aid of a paltry £112,000 pa grant.

 

The "bad" stuff about them is (and that includes using public money to compete against un-subsidised local businesses) is "open season" and I will pass comment freely, as and when I see fit (as will others, no doubt)....

[Colin]

I don't know much about the Shetland Home Company or whatever they call themselves but I did wonder about Karibuni when it closed.  Cope owned the building, were running a business which was subsidised, employing workers on relatively low pay. It was reported that they had about 100 regular customers a day. Yet they closed because they were having a 10% cut in subsidy.

 

 Something is wrong there.

Only ever went into Karibuni once.  Found it small, cramped and uncomfortable and, the "staff" outnumbered the customers and always appeared to be "hovering" for something to do.

Didn't bother me any but, I can see why it might have not been very popular with some.

 

The issue of "subsidy" bothered me a lot as, within "spitting distance", a couple of other cafe's were having to compete of unequal terms. 

 

No idea why a 10% cut in subsidy would have forced the place to close..

 

Ball Park Figures..  The type that go on to Business Plans..<G>

Assuming the average "punter" spent £4

That would be £400 per day income or £2000 per week or £100,000 pa

 

Staff and materials costs would struggle to be in excess of this in a well run cafe business.

[Downtown2]

This is my final offering on this subject, because I am sick of the uninformed attempting to downgrade  the  excellent work carried out by COPE,  I do think that there is a hint of jealousy here, and an attempt to smear an excellent charity.  In my opinion, and. what always amazes me about the people of these islands is how they will  challenge the weak of society. But the people in ' power'  here who have frittered away millions of pounds, on fact finding missions and other ludicrous schemes that never in a million years will ever come to fruition, are never challenged, its just accepted. Now what's that all about?   Its because their finances  are  not transparent unlike COPE, who inform people of the monies they've received and how they intend to pend it. . 

There are something's I am willing to accept as valid criticism, and that is the unrealistic pricing associated with Shetland Home Company   (Scrapstore), but this will be addressed soon, and people will be once again able to get a bargain and help in hand when they are struggling financially, because that has always been the ethos of the store. ,

[Colin]

"in my opinion, and. what always amazes me about the people of these islands is how they will  challenge the weak of society. But the people in ' power'  here who have frittered away millions of pounds, on fact finding missions and other ludicrous schemes that never in a million years will ever come to fruition, are never challenged"

 

It always amazes ME when people make comments like the one above..  Before "casting aspersions", I would suggest that you read some of the other threads.

 

"EVERYBODY and ANYBODY" gets it here..<G>  Doesn't matter a damn who/what they are, if it's deserved, they get it....

 

You need to "lighten up" a bit and stop being a "crusader" and stop accusing posters of being "uninformed", "jealous" and "bullies".  Try contributing in a meaningful way and, who knows, you might get a few converts.  Charging in and "headbutting" those that might not agree with you will only give you a headache and ulcers...

[Ghostrider]

In my opinion, and. what always amazes me about the people of these islands is how they will  challenge the weak of society. But the people in ' power'  here who have frittered away millions of pounds, on fact finding missions and other ludicrous schemes that never in a million years will ever come to fruition, are never challenged, its just accepted. Now what's that all about?   Its because their finances  are  not transparent unlike COPE, who inform people of the monies they've received and how they intend to pend it.

 

May I recommend that you spend a little time perusing the numerous previous posts stretching back over the nine plus years this forum has been in existence, and then come back and tell us if you still believe COPE has in some way been singled out for undue and particularly harsh criticism. Unless the Mods have been having a secret spring clean to save on server space required, I think you'll be gone quite a while wading through posts where "people in power" such as the SIC and SCT have been severely slated and torn to shreds time and time again for their antics. This thread is tame, very, very tame in comparison.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Ghostrider

[paulb]

it amazes me how generous people on shetland can be. 

 

 There are something's I am willing to accept as valid criticism, and that is the unrealistic pricing associated with Shetland Home Company   (Scrapstore), but this will be addressed soon, and people will be once again able to get a bargain and help in hand when they are struggling financially, because that has always been the ethos of the store. ,

 

 sounds fine. would have been better if you had said you were involved with cope. well done if you are. no one has picked on cope. 2 issues were raised not by me by the way.

1. pricing. you have dealt with it.  

2. coffee shop now closed. ive no problem with cope competing with normal shops. why not do a proper restaurant. a number of prisons are opening clink restaurants. no one moans about near free labour and free business rates. 

PLEASE TRY TO READ what folks are trying to say. everyone wants cope to be a massive success. they want your scrap store to be a success. not everyone can afford new. so carry on. 

please keep us up dated on your plans for cope. we would love to know   

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

PLEASE TRY TO READ what folks are trying to say. everyone wants cope to be a massive success. they want your scrap store to be a success. not everyone can afford new. so carry on. 

please keep us up dated on your plans for cope. we would love to know   

 

Actually, I don't want COPE to be a massive success because I don't necessarily feel they are the best folks for the job.  I'm a firm believer that the more charities do then the less governments (national and at local level)  feel obligated to do the tasks undertaken currently by charities.

 

"we would love to know" - is this the royal we?  I don't recall appointing you spokesperson to speak on my behalf.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Suffererof1crankymofo

[paulb]

grumpy.

you really believe our government would do anything  i would disagree i believe local ideas like cope are better than employment schemes done by central government. i dont believe any of our political parties would. its a much needed service. as is moving on. 

 

[Ghostrider]

you really believe our government would do anything

 

Paul, a little history. Prior to the mid-70's there was not a lot provided in Shetland for the disabled, especially the mentally disabled. The SIC then built the Eric Gray Centre at Kantersted which provided an environment which allowed some of them to discover and better develop any talents and skills they had. This service, best as I'm aware was funded through the SIC Social Work Dept. from their allocation of the annual SIC budget, which in turn was majority funded by a grant from central Government.

 

Fast forward to someplace around the 90's and the EGC had become inadequate simply due to the demand to become a client far exceeding the places becoming available. In that era the SIC were severely gung ho to create trusts and other arms length organisations funded by the SCT and farm out duties to them previously the responsibility of the SIC. There was and still is the Amenity Trust, Recreational Trust, Arts Trust to name but a few, and there was back then also the likes of the now defunct Welfare Trust and Development Trust. COPE was conceived in that same era and school of thinking, and with similar philosophies.

 

While it very likely wasn't smart for anyone involved with it all to openly admit all the trusts and other similar organisations being set up was nothing more than an easier route for the SIC to meet their obligations through using the SCT as their piggy bank, and not having to battle with the Government for funding increases so that they in turn met their obligations, or have to actually sit down and create a sustainable budget and stick to it, instead of the "spend, spend, spend" culture, it was pretty clear to observers that was what was going on.

 

Whatever COPE was and is dressed up as, in practice it has always been a means by which the EGC services could be extended to a larger number of clients without it costing the SIC a thing in either money or effort.

 

If you want proof, ask how many of the EGC's clients moved over to be COPE clients when COPE started, and then ask how many of those same people have ever moved on to any other "employment".

 

The problem facing COPE today is not too dis-similar to the one facing the EGC twenty years ago, only this time the piggy bank that the SCT was back then that saved their asses isn't quite so flush now, and will very soon be considerably less flush if it is hell bent to see things through with VE. At the very least (according to SCT's own figures) either COPE is going to have to try and survive on 10% less annual funding from the SCT for a minimum of five years, or then some other SCT beneficiary is going to have to suffer a greater funding percentage reduction if not total removal, to allow COPE to continue to receive their present funding).

 

Perhaps had the SIC had the backbone in the 90's to hound down the Government and secure realistic levels of funding from them to provide and maintain the service levels necessary for the local disabled, or gotten their heads together and created a service that was affordable and sustainable within the budget they had available, the Government would have been paying their fair share of adequate provision for the disabled in Shetland yet, and our local nest egg would not have taken the battering it has. The Government part funds the EGC, COPE is simply the EGC by another name funded largely by the SCT, the Government has a statutory duty to fund both equally, the SIC have allowed the Government to get away with not doing so for twenty odd years, its as simple as that.

[Colin]

"2. coffee shop now closed. ive no problem with cope competing with normal shops. why not do a proper restaurant. a number of prisons are opening clink restaurants. no one moans about near free labour and free business rates. "

 

Sorry Paul but, I have to disagree quite strongly on this point.

 

'Normal' shops and 'proper' restaurants are forced to work in a way that contributes (financially) to the community via business/water rates and all the other taxes that are applied whilst charities such as Cope do not.

This gives charities a very uneven advantage.

The Karibuni is not the only example.  There was a vet's office on commecial street that went to the wall.  Maybe not as a direct result of competition from Cope's pet shop on the street but, it couldn't have helped. 

They also (I believe) have a cycle shop.  This is in direct competition with Eric Brown's (Grantfield Garage) and Harry's.  I don't think that either of these is going to go 'tits up' but, it doesn't help does it.

There was also a local business that prepared and delivered sandwiches which was forced to stop because of 'unfair' competition.

They are also (partly) responsible for the demise of at least one 'plant centre'.

 

The only part of their outlying operation that I support is the Shetland Soap Company because it is not in direct competition with anybody.

 

As for opening a proper restaurant, get real.  That would imply that either the 'volunteers' and 'clients' would have to commit to some pretty anti-social hours or, that paid staff would have to be employed and, if that was to happen, serious questions would have to be asked of their 'charitable status'.

 

Anyway, Cope does not operate a prison service (yet) <G>.

 

Your last line is strange and, I would suggest that a lot of people moan about the availability of "near free labour and free business rates".  In particular, those that have to compete against them..

[paulb]

last line refered to clink restaurants run by prisioners on prison property by a charity to train prisoners. was just an example. colin we will just have to disagree.   

[Colin]

 colin we will just have to disagree.   

No problem with that at all

[MuckleJoannie]

 

They also (I believe) have a cycle shop.  This is in direct competition with Eric Brown's (Grantfield Garage) and Harry's.  I don't think that either of these is going to go 'tits up' but, it doesn't help does it.

 

 

 

The Shetland Community Bike Project is is a standalone organisation,not part of COPE. They sell old bikes that have been donated to them and renovated by the clients, not new ones.

[Colin]

 

 

They also (I believe) have a cycle shop.  This is in direct competition with Eric Brown's (Grantfield Garage) and Harry's.  I don't think that either of these is going to go 'tits up' but, it doesn't help does it.

 

 

 

The Shetland Community Bike Project is is a standalone organisation,not part of COPE. They sell old bikes that have been donated to them and renovated by the clients, not new ones.

 

Thanks for clearing that up..

[onroadoffroad]

Ive always liked a nosey round this shop, and have in the past bought the odd bits. I was quite dismayed recently when I expressed an interest in a piece of furniture that had just come in, and I waited while they looked up the price on ebay before offering me a rather expensive price. Is this how they do all their pricing ? Based on Ebay prices? Shame really !