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Scam Mail Training


Colin
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http://www.shetnews.co.uk/newsbites/10342-scam-mail-training

 

Is this a 'National Initiative' or, is it just the 'locals' being 'silly' again?

 

So many unanswered questions from an article  that is, as usual, devaoid of any real detail but, I have a few points that might be worth considering... <G>

 

"LOCAL postmen and women have attended a training session to help them prevent vulnerable residents becoming victims of organised international fraudsters."

 

Does this mean that the local "postmen and women" now have so much time on their hands that they can afford to use some of it advising anyone they consider to be 'vulnerable' on the contents of their mail?  If so, then who was it that elevated them from the simple 'mail delivery' status to that of part time 'social worker'?

 

"The training, hosted by Shetland Islands Council's trading standards team, was part of a wider initiative between Royal Mail and the National Trading Standards Scams Team."

 

Ah, that's who...

 

"Royal Mail will work closely with the National Trading Standards Scams Team to identify and stop scam mail wherever we can."

 

By refusing to accept and get paid for it in the first instance?  Sounds, to me, a little like "putting the fox in charge of the hen house".

 

It also poses the much more serious question of "are they reading our mail in advance of delivery" if not, then how do they know what's in it?

 

"Scammers deliberately target the vulnerable – so we must ensure people get the protection they need."

 

But you can't can you?  Standard "throwaway" line that suggests a level of 'mail intelligence' that just doesn't exist.  Sometimes, it might be better to say nothing at all..

 

"Isles MP Alistair Carmichael said the UK Government had recently announced plans to strengthen the law to protect people against nuisance phone calls."

 

Good old Alistair...  It's about MAIL Alistair, not phone calls, MAIL....

Again, might have been better to say nothing at all..

 

Funny thing is that I am left with the impression that some people want to be seen making the "right noises" without actually having to do anything about the issue...

 

If anyone actually gets caught with a major scam then, I would suggest thatthey were either 'stupid' or 'greedy'.  No amount of 'nannying' or invasion of privacy is ever goint to fix that one.

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If anyone actually gets caught with a major scam then, I would suggest thatthey were either 'stupid' or 'greedy'.  No amount of 'nannying' or invasion of privacy is ever goint to fix that one.

Wow!

 

Perhaps vulnerable, particularly the elderly. These schemes are aimed at them. I know many elderly folk who have been in demanding management jobs, who have been taken in by these scams. To suggest they are either stupid or greedy is being a bit unfair. Some elderly people have lost their whole life savings due to these scammers.

 

As far as I can see, the postman/woman is in the best position to see if someone is getting loads of these, and I assume some type of reporting system will try to inform people who can help them understand it's all a scam.

 

The post office is legally bound to deliver mail that has been posted, they don't have a choice. At least this may help identify those who are being bombarded with this junk and provide some useful advice to discourage them replying to it.

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OK, unfair, possibly but, the words 'stupid' and 'greedy' were qualified with inverted commas..    How many 'stupid' or 'greedy' things have you (or anyone else for that matter) done in your life?

 

Still left the big question unanswered though.  Just HOW will the post office/postman/woman know what is in the letters?  They might have a legal obligation to deliver them but, they sure as hell would be breaking the law to read them prior to delivery..

 

I get a lot of 'rayburn fodder' delivered through my door but, the moment I get a knock from the delivery person asking if the 'discuss' the contents of my mail then, I am (probably) going to tell them to "go forth and multiply"...

It's bad enough getting unsolicited mail without having to put up with unsolicited intrusions into my privacy etc.

 

Wonder how long it will take the 'privatised' royal mail to take a leaf out of BT's book and start charging for NOT delivering mail?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Goodness, this problem of 'Scam-mail' must be a new thing - or just perhaps it's them at the top of the pile trying to justify their existence. We all know that scams have been coming through the post since the first postie delivered the first letter.

 

Surely, it would be more useful to society to show people how to look after themselves on the internet. Internet scammers con British holidaymakers out of £2.2 million is a prime example. It's not the first time and it certainly won't be the last that something like this happens but as the postie finds himself delivering fewer and fewer letters, because people no longer use the postal service as a regular means of communication, why have they not had the sense to show people how to stay safe when online. That is todays main form of contact with the rest of the world.

 

Scam-mail, and the people suffering from it, should have been dealt with when it came upon us and not as it leaves.

 
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^ What is new is that the mail scammers are now deliberately targeting the elderly and the infirm knowing full-well the individuals in many cases are easy targets, where they may be suffering dementia, have lost the grasp of the true value of money and have no one to turn to, or just don't want to admit to needing help. The mailing is the start, if they then get a phone number the hard sell bully tactics can become relentless.

 

Why is it that when the Post Office and the trading standards start a new initiative to assist real people who need help with a genuine growing problem there seems to be folk on here that just think there's a hidden agenda?

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^ While its good that its being recognised that a carrier has some responsibility towards the folk they deliver to with regard to the contents of the deliveries they make, and anything that helps prevent folk being screwed over is difficult to see as a bad thing, the method here does tend to come off a bit like "letting the fox in to the henhouse, then standing in its way whenever they notice it might be about to attack".

 

Common sense would tend to dictate it would be far more effective and sensible, for the carrier to just refuse to deliver such items in the first place.

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"Common sense would tend to dictate it would be far more effective and sensible, for the carrier to just refuse to deliver such items in the first place."

 

Problem is that for them to refuse to accept/deliver then, they would have to know what was in the mail in the first place.  "Declarations" wouldn't work as scammers, by their nature, would not be honest and, the only other (legal) method that I can think of would be via an "after the event" complaint.  Bit to late then.

 

Another issue (in these days of targets etc.) would be the expectation that your busy postie would have the time to stand on the doorstep (in all weathers) discussing the contents of the mail they have just delivered with the recipient.

 

Don't know about anyone else but, my postie is pretty busy and comes and goes so quickly that, unless I have anything to sign for, I have no idea he has been.

 

I wonder what the posties think of this scheme?

 

Well intended, possibly, but the people who dream up these "initiatives" have, obviously, no idea of how things actually work in the real world. 

 

Question;

 

Given that all postie's have a "round" that they are expected to complete within a set time, will Royal Mail be willing to pay overtime because of delays caused by "doorstep consultations" or, is this something that delivery personnel are expected to "fit in" to their already busy working day?

 

If it is the former then, I would expect the cost of a stamp to increase at some point.  If it is the latter then, it smacks of "let's get the "bottom of the pile" to do the work whilst the rest of us look good".   Bit like the old "tree full of monkeys" scenario...

 

Why not just "mailshot" every home warning them of the dangers?

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Problem is that for them to refuse to accept/deliver then, they would have to know what was in the mail in the first place.  "Declarations" wouldn't work as scammers, by their nature, would not be honest and, the only other (legal) method that I can think of would be via an "after the event" complaint.  Bit to late then.

 

Perhaps if they only accepted mass mailings on condition that should they "suspect" the contents to be "fraudulent", they would open random sample(s) and if the contents were found to be "unsavoury" the entire mailing would be rejected and destroyed.

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"Perhaps if they only accepted mass mailings on condition that should they "suspect" the contents to be "fraudulent", they would open random sample(s) and if the contents were found to be "unsavoury" the entire mailing would be rejected and destroyed."

 

A possible solution but, intrusive...  I thought that mail was supposed to be private(?)  Having someone open your mail to "check" it for suitability might be construed as the "thin end of the wedge" in some quarters.

 

Furthermore, interfering with "mass mailings"  and blocking unsuitable(?) offerings would cost the newly privatised Royal Mail lost income.  Sometimes, I think, putting the "rats in charge of the granary" is not the best way to do things..

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Well, considered they already have this "cover all" line at the end of each of their several pages of a quite an extensive list of restricted/prohibited items to send in the mail, I think the thin end of the wedge has long since been well used.

 

 

*We reserve the right to refuse any other item banned by law or that in our opinion may be harmful or dangerous to our customers or employees. If you send dangerous goods and do not comply with the applicable terms and conditions and legal requirements then we may deal with the goods as we see fit including destroying or disposing of the relevant goods.

 

Not much way of identifying and deciding the "harmful" or "dangerous" nature of any letter or package without first opening it.

 

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Restricted-Goods

Edited by Ghostrider
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I suspect there's good reason why all these companies are based outside the UK, their practices are probably illegal for companies operating within the UK. I wonder who's behind the companies that receive the containers loaded with the mass mail and then pass them onward into the Royal Mail system? From my understanding, once posted into the Royal Mail system they are then obliged to deliver the mail by law (restricted items excepted).

 

I've seen plenty of this type of mail and it's pretty easy to identify. All the posties are asked to do is to report if they believe an address is being deliberately targeted.

 

Colin - a mail shot to all addresses wouldn't work, you underestimate the devious and intensive nature of the scammers and the folk being targeted struggle to remember their date of birth from day to day.

 

Have a look at the 'Think Jessica' website - it might seem a bit Daily Mail headline, but it's astonishing how widespread the issue really is, and because of the nature of the issue I believe most of the folk who lose money never report it because they realise they've been done over.

 

Maybe we need to enlist the help of the scambaiters - I posted this before in 2008...

 

https://thescambaiter.com/forum/index.php/topic/17878-anus-laptops-the-martins-cole-saga-complete/

Edited by Infiltrator
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I suspect there's good reason why all these companies are based outside the UK, their practices are probably illegal for companies operating within the UK. I wonder who's behind the companies that receive the containers loaded with the mass mail and then pass them onward into the Royal Mail system? From my understanding, once posted into the Royal Mail system they are then obliged to deliver the mail by law (restricted items excepted).

 

I've seen plenty of this type of mail and it's pretty easy to identify. All the posties are asked to do is to report if they believe an address is being deliberately targeted.

 

Royal Mail need to update their list of restricted items to include these then, they've been quick enough to add numerous things year on year now for a while, so I don't see how one more should be any problem.

 

If its easily recognised at the delivery end, it should be even better to recognise by sorting staff at the originating end, where its turning up in volume.

 

From what little I've seen of this kind of crap over the years, it almost all comes on some sort of metered franking rather than conventional stamps. Royal Mail could know very quickly and easily who is responsible for it and close it down, as each meter has an I.D. number and accompanying licence so that Royal Mail knows who to charge for what. The fact that they've chosen not to take that route lends me to suspect there's a bit of "have their cake and eat it going" on. As in, still rake in their revenue for delivering it, but try and minimise bad press heading their way by encouraging folk not to act on the contents of the mailings. Good business practice perhaps, but arguably dubious "customer service".

Edited by Ghostrider
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