Alistair Carmichael memo leak and inquiry: should he resign?

[JustMe]

Did I vote for A.C.?..........well yes I did.  To be honest I did look at Danus and what sort of MP he might be including listening to speeches and reading leaflets but in the end I decided that A.C. and the Lib Dems were the best combination to represent Shetland.  Would I have voted the same way if I had been aware of the story of what the First Minister had allegedly said to some French person?.  Well yes actually.  And if I had been aware that A.C. was slightly economical with the truth about his part in this would I have voted for him?.  Of course.........all politicians (and indeed all lawyers) are economical with the truth from time to time and the option of voting for "no government" was not available to me. 

 

Do I believe the story about what the First Minister allegedly said to the French person.  Well maybe she did say something like that perhaps partly in jest.  Or perhaps she believes that five more years of Tory rule are the best way for Scotland to gain real independence.

 

Should we criticise Danus for standing for various parties over the years.  Hell no!.  I have cast my vote for Tory, Lib Dem, Labour, Green and SNP over the years (probably some independents as well) perhaps because I changed and perhaps because they changed.  So he went to Eton!.  Well frankly so what?.  Am sure I can think of better schools.  And a Clan Chief.........guess that is something you are born into with little choice in the matter.

 

And I am prepared to congratulate Danus on making such inroads into a safe Lib Dem seat.  But at the end of the day slightly more people wanted to stay with the Lib Dems than go to the SNP.  That is politics.

[Ghostrider]

So he went to Eton!.  Well frankly so what?.  Am sure I can think of better schools.  And a Clan Chief.........guess that is something you are born into with little choice in the matter.

 

Whether or not he went to Eton, or whether or not being a Clan Chief is down to each individual voter to decide whether it matters or not, and isn't the point. The point is each voter should have had the right to know that he was both, and allowed to decide for themselves whether it mattered to them or not. From where I'm sitting that part of him, which could be perceived by some as making him less attractive to vote for in Shetland, and presumbly also preceived by himself and his supporters as making him less attractive to vote for in Shetland, elsewise why didn't they shout about it - eductional achievement and social standing is frequently plyed as making a person more "attractive" elsewhere. Was kept that quiet as be considered to be virtually hidden, and to my mind as much of a "lie" by omission, as Carmichael's little indiscretion with some gossip was a "lie".

[Roachmill]

The point is each voter should have had the right to know that he was both

 

They did have the right. But that's not the point. Judging someone on place of education or title (or physical appearance, body odour and all the other things we make snap judgements on) is entirely natural as an initial reaction to new information. However, basing an important decision off the back of it, is highly dubious. I'd far rather know a candidate were trying to influence their own result by back handed means and have that right upon which to decide my vote before an election. Which ever party they represented.

[George.]

 

People vs. Alistair Carmichael: Hearing This Thursday

 

[Wheelsup]

I suppose the result of that will settle things................, unless they disagree with you.

[George.]

I suppose the result of that will settle things................, unless they disagree with you.

 

We also have to see the outcome of the inquiries by the Parliamentary Standards Commission. Fingers crossed.

[Ghostrider]

You really don't much like Carmichael, do you George?

[George.]

You really don't much like Carmichael, do you George?

 

I neither like nor dislike Carmichael as a person. I don't agree with his central-right political standing but that's part of life. What I don't like is having fraudulent leaks put forward by him in the run-up to the election, only to hear them then being lied about by him until he has won his seat, and therefore his salary, again. No honesty in the man and prepared to do anything to provide himself with an easy, well paid little earner.

 

Then he was backed by Malcolm Bruce, who stood up and stated that we weren't to worry because all M.P's told lies. Says it all about the "LibDims", doesn't it 

[Ghostrider]

 No honesty in the man and prepared to do anything to provide himself with an easy, well paid little earner.

 

So where were you when Skene was doing his damndest to keep his full educational history, social standing and faith convictions in as tightly lidded a tin as possible, arguably for the same reasons?

Edited July 1, 2015 by Ghostrider

[Frances144]

What are these faith convictions and social standing that you mind about?

[George.]

 

 No honesty in the man and prepared to do anything to provide himself with an easy, well paid little earner.

 

So where were you when Skene was doing his damndest to keep his full educational history, social standing and faith convictions in as tightly lidded a tin as possible, arguably for the same reasons?

 

 

Skene doing his damnest.......? All that information is there for you to look at if you are interested, of course. Have you looked to see what similar information Carbunkle provides on FaceBook? Perhaps he's hiding it from the common man too?

[Ghostrider]

What are these faith convictions and social standing that you mind about?

 

I didn't say I minded about them, I said I believed he had an obligation to ensure as far as practically possible that the folk he was asking to vote for him were adequately informed of them, so that they could make up their own minds whether they mattered to them, or not.

 

Personally speaking I would be dubious of having anyone representing me that had particularly strong faith convictions, as from personal experience generally speaking such folk tend to be far more heavily influenced by their faith when deciding upon their stance on any one given subject, than reality, common sense and practicalities. Likewise, I would be considerably dubious of someone who subscribes to exclusively Scottish Mainland and Western Isles social eliteism, to the point of becoming the head of one of those factions, being capable of representing Shetlnd's best interests, where such a social structure doesn't and never has existed. I would also be dubious how such a person could resolve the conflict between being a "Scottish toff", and membership of the leftist party under who's banner they had chosen to stand on this occasion.

 

Perhaps Skene would have been man enough to be able to compartmentaise his faith and social statuses, and act as an MP as if they didn't exist, but as the "new kid on the block" the only way he had of doing that was acknowledging them pro-actively and openly, and doing his best to reassure and convince folk he could and would put his role of MP ahead of his personal beliefs and choices. He chose to do the opposite, and the rest is history.

[Ghostrider]

 Skene doing his damnest.......? All that information is there for you to look at if you are interested, of course. Have you looked to see what similar information Carbunkle provides on FaceBook? Perhaps he's hiding it from the common man too?

 

There was no mention in the generally distributed election literature for Mr. Skene that he was Eton educated, Clan Chief of the Clan Skene or a past director of some obscure religious organisation. Yes, the info was all out there, but no thanks to either Mr. Skene or his supporters, it all relied on third party websites n individual initative to locate, a person could only find it if they already knew what they were looking for, or purposely went looking to see if they could find information, any information on the man. That's not informing potential voters of who and what you are, thats Skene hoping no-one notices or mentions the elephant he's brought in to the room with him.

 

Carmichael may or may not have his secrets, but if he does he's got them very well hidden that nobody has manged to ferret them out before now, or his actions haven't given away. As far as I can recall his background and general interests were quite well covered when he was "introduced" as Wallace's replacement 14 years ago, and little if anything of note has come to light since. Carmichael was operating on a whole other level to Skene anyway, as the sitting incumbent his track record was his ace to play, as that was the fairest grounds to judge him on, Skene as the pretender had no track record on which to fall back on, so had no choice but play on his life achievements, character and pledges for the future.

 

I'm not sure the relevance of Carmichael's F/B page, as I read it that's as much if not more his "personal" page as anything else, it certainly wasn't created specifically for this year's election, and as such I don't believe its reasonable to expect it to wholly "talk shop". Compared to the SNP's Northern Isles election, https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shetland-SNP/741902512587499?fref=ts and Skene's own https://www.facebook.com/pages/SNP-Northern-Isles-Alliance/390841761075147?fref=nf&pnref=story F/B pages of SNP propagandist  fluff and minimal substance, I think it holds up quite well.

[Frances144]

What is the "obscure religious organisation"?

 

And what has Eton got to do with anything?

[Ghostrider]

What is the "obscure religious organisation"?

 

And what has Eton got to do with anything?

 

"The Iona Community", Director Jun '10 - Jun '14.

 

"Iona Community Trading Ltd", Director Jun '10 - Apr '11.

 

http://iona.org.uk/

 

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/913979011

 

Eton, rightly or wrongly carries a reputation of melding their pupils in to an upper crust, "toff", "Hooray Henry" type character. A place where future "top" people (poilticians, civil servants etc) who will "get with the program" and ensure it will continue, for their collective benefit, not ours, are made.

 

Whether based entirely on myth or some element of fact, I wouldn't know as I've never known anyone who'd been to Eton, but that is the stereotype held by the majority of the great unwashed, and hardly something a wannabe pseudo-Socialist would want to boast about.