Alistair Carmichael memo leak and inquiry: should he resign?

[Roachmill]

"It was something I could have stopped and very much should have stopped".  He said all that on camera. "should" means he knew what was going on. Had he not known the contents we would have been given, "It was something I could have stopped and very much would have stopped had I been aware of the contents of the memo".

[Who Knows]

The normal protocol is that conversations between foreign diplomats and any part of the Government in the UK or the opposition leaders is that it remains strictly private and confidential. The only normal exception is if they make a joint press release.

 

Our MP excuse for a serious breach with tradition was that the content of the memo was in the public interest.

 

Now if that is the case how can you determine it is in the public interest if you have not read it.

 

It is a significant break of protocol to release the memo on the alleged conversation so authorising this without reading it to determine in your own opinion the likely varsity of the public interest test would be a very incompetent and foolish act.

[Ghostrider]

^^ Alistair Carmichael now has a team of lawyers as shown in the link HERE

 

Even they've had to admit that he told a big porkie in the face of overwhelming evidence.

 

It's there in black and white, a crowd of lawyers who have been hired to defend our MP from a number of his own constituens said, and I quote...

 

"The First respondent accepts (and has prior to the inceptions of these proceedings publicly accepted) that in a statement he misstated his awareness of the leaked memorandum. This was an error of judgement on a political matter."

 

Alistair Carmichael "misstated his awareness of the leaked memorandum"

 

He lied about knowing about the leaked memorandum, there's no doubt, no grey area he admits it, his lawyers admit it, it's common knowledge.

 

The lawyers will say whatever they believe they need to say and can get away with saying to win their case, lawyers are like that by definition. Reality, facts and the truth rarely get much of  look in when they start haggling.

 

So, lets analyse the "evidence" you've provided. "....he misstated his awareness of the leaked memorandum...". "Misstated in what way exactly. His knowledge of its existence within the Scottish Office, his knowledge of its contents, his knowledge of it being released to the press by his aide, or what? There is no clarity there whatsoever, other than confirming  his original lack of clarity in "something". It isn't quantified either, as to whether his admitted "misstatement" was caused by his lack of understanding as to what the question pertained when it was asked, forgetfulness or intentional deception.

 

Its all a very grey area, until and unless either Carmichael and/or his aide stand up and say, I/He knew the exact contents of that memo, I/he authorised its release to the press in the full knowledge of what was going to be put out there. Neither have, and anything less is circumstantial and easily dismissed weak evidence.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Ghostrider

[Ghostrider]

"It was something I could have stopped and very much should have stopped".  He said all that on camera. "should" means he knew what was going on. Had he not known the contents we would have been given, "It was something I could have stopped and very much would have stopped had I been aware of the contents of the memo".

 

He made that statement after all the dust had settled and at a time when it had already been "proven" the source was his department and his problem.

 

Against that backdrop I don't find the subtle difference between "should" and "would" proves anything much of anything.

[Ghostrider]

Now if that is the case how can you determine it is in the public interest if you have not read it.

 

Be told what it allegedly contains by a minion, a minion perhaps with an agenda.

 

Lets face it, the minion was as much if not more likely than Carmichael to be joining the dole queue on May 8th, what had they to lose.

 

Minion wrote the memo, minion gave the memo to the press, minion is the most important player in the game, minion is one with all the answers yet minion has been let to quietly vanish from the scene of the crime. Something does not quite smell as much of rose petals and lavender as it should.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Ghostrider

[Roachmill]

Against that backdrop I don't find the subtle difference between "should" and "would" proves anything much of anything.

 

There is no subtle difference. I'll leave you to carry on believing a politician wouldn't have taken the opportunity to state they hadn't read the document were that even vaguely the case. Even giving AC the benefit of the doubt (i.e. he hadn't read it) the fact that he then didn't have the wit to say as much is almost as worrying.

[Ghostrider]

 Even giving AC the benefit of the doubt (i.e. he hadn't read it) the fact that he then didn't have the wit to say as much is almost as worrying.

 

He did, in the opening line of his statement.

 

 

I had not seen the document before it was published in the Daily Telegraph...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lib-dem-minister-alistair-carmichael-ordered-leak-of-sturgeon-conversation-with-french-ambassador-10270431.html

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

It is a significant break of protocol to release the memo on the alleged conversation so authorising this without reading it to determine in your own opinion the likely varsity of the public interest test would be a very incompetent and foolish act.

 

Reminds me of "Weapons of Mass Destructiongate" ... wasn't it the Colgate Kid who took the word of an M15 bod who had got the information from a student's essay/dissertation?  Did the Colgate Kid read that essay/dissertation then?

[Capeesh]

 

 

 

 

^^ Alistair Carmichael now has a team of lawyers as shown in the link HERE

Even they've had to admit that he told a big porkie in the face of overwhelming evidence.

It's there in black and white, a crowd of lawyers who have been hired to defend our MP from a number of his own constituens said, and I quote...

"The First respondent accepts (and has prior to the inceptions of these proceedings publicly accepted) that in a statement he misstated his awareness of the leaked memorandum. This was an error of judgement on a political matter."

Alistair Carmichael "misstated his awareness of the leaked memorandum"

He lied about knowing about the leaked memorandum, there's no doubt, no grey area he admits it, his lawyers admit it, it's common knowledge.

 

 

The lawyers will say whatever they believe they need to say and can get away with saying to win their case, lawyers are like that by definition. Reality, facts and the truth rarely get much of  look in when they start haggling.

So Alistair Carmichael's own legal team, in an attempt to help him win his case released a statement saying that he lied about having any knowledge of the leaked memo.

Why?

[Roachmill]

 

 Even giving AC the benefit of the doubt (i.e. he hadn't read it) the fact that he then didn't have the wit to say as much is almost as worrying.

 

He did, in the opening line of his statement.

 

 

I had not seen the document before it was published in the Daily Telegraph...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lib-dem-minister-alistair-carmichael-ordered-leak-of-sturgeon-conversation-with-french-ambassador-10270431.html

 

 

Score one for AC. I'll eat only half my hat though as you missed out the rest of his quote: "...however I was aware of its content and agreed that my special adviser should make it public". He knew and sanctioned its release. It is the weekend and I'm done flogging this horse. 

[Capeesh]

Why has disgraced MP Alistair Carmichael just been appointed the Lib Dems' Shadow Home Secretary?

 

http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/why-has-disgraced-mp-alistair.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+ScotGoesPop+(SCOT+goes+POP!)

 

And have the LibDim's been overtaken by Baroness's?

Yes It's a great start for the new Lib Dem leader Tim Farron, in answer to his party's almost total annihilation in the UK election, he has proven his party has learnt nothing.

In an act of breathtaking hypocrisy, Tim Farron has forgotten all about his principled support of an act of recall, whereby MP's who are guilty of wrongdoing have to answer to their constituents in a by-election.

Link HERE

It seems the Libdems new policy is to reward members who are guilty of wrongdoing by promoting them.

I know they only have 8 MPs left after the electorate delivered their verdict on their abysmal performance in government but to have to bring in unelected peers in his...cough..."shadow cabinet" is laughable.

Another LibDem principle forgotten, are they not meant to be opposed to the House of Lords?

A little google search reveals despite only having 8 MPs in the elected House of Commons they have 100 peers in the House of Lords.

Link HERE

[George.]

STV are showing the case, The People vs. "Carbunkle the Liar" live, starting 10.30am, 7th of September. Our chance to see Big Al being shot down in flames when he could have done the decent thing and resigned.

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/11302-carmichael-legal-hearing-to-be-broadcast-live

Edited September 1, 2015 by George.

[Wheelsup]

I don't know how any enquiry can be fair with the amount of pre-judging thats been going on. 

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Yeah can see it now ... you didn't break the law so we can't do ya for it, but in our summing up we'll pull stern grave faces and wag our fingers at you to appease the you're guilty no matter what cos we're peeved people didn't vote SNP brigade.

[Capeesh]

Hopefully justice will be done, it damages democracy to have our representatives lie to us and abuse their position in government.

As others on this thread have said its nigh on impossible for the electorate to boot out a MP between elections, even when they've confessed to wrongdoing.

Maybe someday our antiquated parliament will catch up with other more enlightened democratic countries and have an act of recall for MPs so events like this don't become the norm.