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Alistair Carmichael memo leak and inquiry: should he resign?


Should Alistair Carmichael resign?  

141 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Alistair Carmichael resign?

    • Yes
      84
    • No
      57


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* The lot. What's paradoxical about it? If someone is "convicted" of being a thief folk don't let them near their valuables as they believe they'll revert to form and go walkabout with them, if someone is "convicted" of being a paedophile folk keep their kids away from them as they believe they'll revert to form etc... So if someone is "convicted" of being a liar, surely the same reasoning and logic dictates folk believe they'll revert to form too, and every statement they make thereafter is likely to be a lie too until or unless proven accurate by other independent evidence.

 

As for the last bit, I don't follow where that's headed at all.

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As a point of order surely the correct parliamentary term for what Alastair did is "being economical with the truth".  Now one might think that a place that needed such a term might be the sort of place where telling lies was sort of frequent but I couldn't possibly comment.

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As a point of order surely the correct parliamentary term for what Alastair did is "being economical with the truth".

 

Any more economical with the truth than Danus Skene making no attempt whatsoever to inform the electorate from whom he was attempting to solicit votes, that he was Eton educated, Chief of a Scottish Clan and a past director of some obscure religious group?

 

The only "sin" I see Carmichael having committed is to have attempted to answer a vague and incompetent question rather than request clarification of it or destroy it.

 

Had nobody taken the trouble to dig deeper in to who Skene the man was, before polling day, and he had been elected, and it was only afterwards that the other bits about who and what he is came out, I sure as hell would have felt much more conned by that than I do by Carmichael's alleged "sins".

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As a point of order surely the correct parliamentary term for what Alastair did is "being economical with the truth".

 

Any more economical with the truth than Danus Skene making no attempt whatsoever to inform the electorate from whom he was attempting to solicit votes, that he was Eton educated, Chief of a Scottish Clan and a past director of some obscure religious group?

 

The only "sin" I see Carmichael having committed is to have attempted to answer a vague and incompetent question rather than request clarification of it or destroy it.

 

Had nobody taken the trouble to dig deeper in to who Skene the man was, before polling day, and he had been elected, and it was only afterwards that the other bits about who and what he is came out, I sure as hell would have felt much more conned by that than I do by Carmichael's alleged "sins".

 

 

That's great, isn't it. Ignore the fact that Carbunkle is a self-admitted liar and pretend that the worst he has done is to "have attempted to answer a vague and incompetent question...." What utter rubbish :ponders:

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As a point of order surely the correct parliamentary term for what Alastair did is "being economical with the truth".  Now one might think that a place that needed such a term might be the sort of place where telling lies was sort of frequent but I couldn't possibly comment.

I'm afraid the court ruled that Alistair lied to help win his seat, so the correct term is liar.

To quote the judges...

"...We are satisfied that it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that the first respondent (Carmichael) made the false statement of fact for the purpose of affecting (positively) his own return at the election"

"Economical with the truth" is when politicians use all kinds of verbal gymnastics to avoid telling an outright lie. A good interviewer can usually probe and push to get to the truth and anyone with an ounce of wit can usually read between the lines and hear what's not being said and come to their own conclusions.

What has come out of this seedy affair is that politicians don't have to do this anymore, they can now lie with impunity, lying and smearing is now enshrined in law.

A sad day for democracy and a sad day for those of us who expect more from our representatives.

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That's great, isn't it. Ignore the fact that Carbunkle is a self-admitted liar and pretend that the worst he has done is to "have attempted to answer a vague and incompetent question...." What utter rubbish :ponders:

 

See my earlier point about "liars". ;-)

 

Seriously though, whatever Carmichel may have "admitted" was, to the best of my knowledge, after he'd lawyer'd up, and as such any connection to reality and fact is purely coincidental. Once a lawyer's game plan is in play you either say what they tell you to say, to achieve what they perceive will likely provide "best outcome", regardless of what it is, or you fire them.

 

Anyway, when it comes to ignoring, you're doing a good job ignoring the connected issue about Skene's shortcomings during the same period of the election campaign.

 

Had Skene won, would we have had the same braying mob calling for him to step down, and taking him to court if he didn't, for "lying" about half of his CV. In the interests of fairness across the board concerning "honesty and integrity" I would hope so, but I seriously doubt it, given that he's been selected to stand again, this time for the Scottie farce.

Edited by Ghostrider
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If you need to lie, cheat and smear to win your seat ( the judges ruled Alistair did this ) then good luck to him.

I find the gloating amusing, why would Alistair Carmichaels opponents be upset to be up against a proven liar and his apologists?

I hope there are many more like me who would like someone with honesty, integrity and honour representing me.

Good luck finding that among the political types.

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Here's an example where it could be said the current Secretary of State for Scotland was being "economical with the truth" did he know about the dodgy memo?

Why doesn't he just deny knowing about it?

Watch this 1 minute long clip from a BBC Daily Politics interview and come to your own conclusion.

The point being politicians can and do try to pull the wool over our eyes, but they rarely tell outright lies, if David Mundell had denied knowledge of the memo in that clip I would've believed it, which is why when Alistair Carmichael denied all knowledge I believed him too.

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That's great, isn't it. Ignore the fact that Carbunkle is a self-admitted liar and pretend that the worst he has done is to "have attempted to answer a vague and incompetent question...." What utter rubbish :ponders:

 

See my earlier point about "liars". ;-)

 

Seriously though, whatever Carmichel may have "admitted" was, to the best of my knowledge, after he'd lawyer'd up, and as such any connection to reality and fact is purely coincidental. Once a lawyer's game plan is in play you either say what they tell you to say, to achieve what they perceive will likely provide "best outcome", regardless of what it is, or you fire them.

 

Anyway, when it comes to ignoring, you're doing a good job ignoring the connected issue about Skene's shortcomings during the same period of the election campaign.

 

Had Skene won, would we have had the same braying mob calling for him to step down, and taking him to court if he didn't, for "lying" about half of his CV. In the interests of fairness across the board concerning "honesty and integrity" I would hope so, but I seriously doubt it, given that he's been selected to stand again, this time for the Scottie farce.

 

Not really he admitted it was a lie only after the investigation uncovered his involvement.

If Danus Skene had lied while a government minister and during an election campaign he would get the same treatment.

Out of interest what lie has he told?

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That's great, isn't it. Ignore the fact that Carbunkle is a self-admitted liar and pretend that the worst he has done is to "have attempted to answer a vague and incompetent question...." What utter rubbish :ponders:

 

See my earlier point about "liars". ;-)

 

Seriously though, whatever Carmichel may have "admitted" was, to the best of my knowledge, after he'd lawyer'd up, and as such any connection to reality and fact is purely coincidental. Once a lawyer's game plan is in play you either say what they tell you to say, to achieve what they perceive will likely provide "best outcome", regardless of what it is, or you fire them.

 

Anyway, when it comes to ignoring, you're doing a good job ignoring the connected issue about Skene's shortcomings during the same period of the election campaign.

 

Had Skene won, would we have had the same braying mob calling for him to step down, and taking him to court if he didn't, for "lying" about half of his CV. In the interests of fairness across the board concerning "honesty and integrity" I would hope so, but I seriously doubt it, given that he's been selected to stand again, this time for the Scottie farce.

 

Not really he admitted it was a lie only after the investigation uncovered his involvement.

If Danus Skene had lied while a government minister and during an election campaign he would get the same treatment.

Out of interest what lie has he told?

 

 

Very true, Mikeyboy. Skene, to my knowledge, didn't tell any lies. He just didn't see the posh school that he went to or his religious beliefs as relevant so only dealt with subjects that were worthwhile.

 

Of course, not every politician is like that. It was accepted in court that Carbunkle is an out and out liar and therefore not to be trusted again, ever. There are some people still doing their best to prop him up while pretending that he's not a totally dishonest, lying bar steward but that's life. Ghostie will agree with me, I'm sure, but then again......

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