Self-sustaining Shetland

[BGDDisco]

 

so your reply is we should be ruled by westminster. and yet the english councils are and have been cut by 20%. liverpool has lost 58% of funding in real terms. so before people complain loudly just remember it could be much much worse. 

Are you saying that we should just "shut up and take our medicine"?

 

From where I am standing, Shetland is more than a nett contributor to the UK economy.  Why, therefore, should we take "less" from the pot to which we contribute so handsomely?

 

As for Liverpool, et al..  I don't really care about them.  If they aren't "producing", go figure it out..

 

At first I was appalled by this statement about Liverpool, but then I thought... Would they give a fig about us in Shetland? Most likely not. So... stuff them. 

 

Edit:

Anyway, the budget cuts, no matter where they originate, must surely work to the advantage of the Wir Shetland campaign.

Edited February 11, 2016 by BGDDisco

[crofter]

It's the Conservative government cutting the grant to Scotland. The SNP just have to make the best of it.

Not what Gary Robinson is saying?

 

Mr Robinson added: “I am hugely disappointed that a cash increase from Westminster has translated into a £350m cut [across all local authorities] from the Scottish government.”

[Ghostrider]

so your reply is we should be ruled by westminster. and yet the english councils are and have been cut by 20%. liverpool has lost 58% of funding in real terms. so before people complain loudly just remember it could be much much worse. 

 

Not sure who you're aiming this at, but as you don't seem to have noticed, we are ruled by Westminster.

 

Any reduction in funds made available to councils nationwide is wholly down to the failure of the puppets and muppets lower down the totem to harass Westminster and create enough merry hell to make Westminster too scared not to hand down a decent cheque.

 

It doesn't help any Scottish council get a decent deal that since the inception of the Scottish Parliament theres one more layer of monkeys to negotiate through before they get to deal with the organ grinder. A layer of monkeys which themselves consume a sum of cash by their very existence, that even if half of it were instead distributed among the Scottish LA's, would make a significant difference.

[MuckleJoannie]

The Scottish government had the opportunity to increase the Scottish rate of income tax today to help mitigate the cuts but they failed to do so.

[whalsa]

We are being failed at every level of Government. From Brussels to Westminster, Holyrood and the SIC. Our representatives are either corrupt, incompetent, uninterested or tied up by legislation or diktats from above. The genuine few who do try to improve our lot are usually completely unable to under the current system. 

With self governance mistakes will probably still be made and it will not be perfect but at least the people making the decisions will be aware of the issues facing Shetland and would have our true interests at heart. Not to mention any mistakes that are made can be much more easily rectified in a small territory of 23,000 than will ever be possible in Scotland/the UK/the EU. 

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

The Scottish government had the opportunity to increase the Scottish rate of income tax today to help mitigate the cuts but they failed to do so.

 

I'm pleased about that.  After years of being on a low income and now earning more, I wouldn't have been too happy at having to pay more tax.

[Ghostrider]

The Scottish government had the opportunity to increase the Scottish rate of income tax today to help mitigate the cuts but they failed to do so.

 

Well, they woundn't, would they. Not as long as blaming Westminster for cuts is winning them their main political capital. Truth be told, its not more tax that folk should be paying to offset any shortfall from Westminster, its the Scottish Government that should be continually lobbying and harrassing Westminster to ensure a good deal. You don't hear of much if any of that going on, they seem to just sit back, accept whatever Westminster decides to give them, then moan about how little they can do with it, and Westminster, regardless of who is top dog down there, isn't going to just hand out more and more money, it needs to be worked for, if not fought for.

 

Don't ask, doesn't get.

[Capeesh]

I've tried to keep out of the political arguments but this really shocked me

 

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2016/02/10/councillors-condemn-worst-settlement-as-budget-agreed

 

I'm ready to drop Scotland like a stone, we'd be miles better off without them.

 

I see political arguments are now OK as long as it's the Scottish government getting attacked.

I find it very telling indeed.

Reading some of the letters and comments in the Shetland Times and here, it seems that sticking the boot into the SNP whether it's justified or not is a much higher priority than any kind of autonomy for Shetland.

[whalsa]

 

I've tried to keep out of the political arguments but this really shocked me

 

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2016/02/10/councillors-condemn-worst-settlement-as-budget-agreed

 

I'm ready to drop Scotland like a stone, we'd be miles better off without them.

I see political arguments are now OK as long as it's the Scottish government getting attacked.

I find it very telling indeed.

Reading some of the letters and comments in the Shetland Times and here, it seems that sticking the boot into the SNP whether it's justified or not is a much higher priority than any kind of autonomy for Shetland.

 

Capeesh I think you will find no-one is saying Westminster Good, Holyrood Bad as some would seem to imply. The fact of the matter is the Scottish Government are the ones that have been involved in most of the recent bad decisions that are negatively impacting Shetland. 

 

Tory austerity can be blamed for some of these ills but certainly not all. It is the Scottish Government who have imposed a 5.1% cut on SIC funding (more than any other area), bungled CAP payments for crofters, consistently underfunded Shetlands Education budget and centralised our police service (and plan on further removing call centres from the location of the emergency).

 

Not only this but if you cast an eye to the West Coast of Scotland you see the contempt with which they are treating the fishermen there. Introducing Marine Protected Areas risking the viability of many coastal communities and for what? To appease the Greens some say. Would anyone like to see similar plans enforced up here? Would the Scottish Government listen to the wishes of fishermen were they to achieve the fabled goal of independence whilst renegotiating entry into the EU or would they follow in the footsteps of Westminster in the 70s and sacrifice the industry for the perceived greater good of the nation?

 

Neither Westminster nor Holyrood serve our interests in an acceptable manner. If we want to preserve our way of life for future generations we must achieve meaningful autonomy so that our core interests are not ignored.  

[Capeesh]

^^^I thought you wanted us to remain under British sovereignty as a British Overseas Territory.

If the Tory government's willing to slash funding to councils they control in England and risk Scottish independence by slashing the Scottish budget, I can't see them giving up control of the revenues they collect from the waters surrounding Shetland.

This is a serious question, put my mind at rest, if this isn't some kind of anti SNP thing as I suspect, how on earth are we going to gain control of our EEZ (as I've heard asserted) by having it under the sovereignty of the UK?

My earlier post (#203) had various links to the facts about being a BOT, it seems to me that if we become one we would still suffer Tory austerity, only it would be worse because instead of having representation in Holyrood and Westminster we would have an appointed Lord Governor in charge, looking after UK interests.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Capeesh

[brian.smith]

It makes no difference a Fiscal case has not been made all we have heard it surplus income levels but nothing about costs and most important no indication and what actual taxed income Shetland would have to provide the services required.

transport

Health

Social care

Police

Courts

Prison

Roads

Infrastructure to mange affairs

Benefits

where does the balance of payments sit positive negative and how have you arrived at these conclusions

I read the wir Shetland facebook and web site stories and frankly a lot of drum banging and no facts now where have I heard that before recently Oh yes SNP and the dam referendum

Edited February 14, 2016 by brian.smith

[Da Burra Shop]

^^^I thought you wanted us to remain under British sovereignty as a British Overseas Territory.

If the Tory government's willing to slash funding to councils they control in England and risk Scottish independence by slashing the Scottish budget, I can't see them giving up control of the revenues they collect from the waters surrounding Shetland.

This is a serious question, put my mind at rest, if this isn't some kind of anti SNP thing as I suspect, how on earth are we going to gain control of our EEZ (as I've heard asserted) by having it under the sovereignty of the UK?

My earlier post (#203) had various links to the facts about being a BOT, it seems to me that if we become one we would still suffer Tory austerity, only it would be worse because instead of having representation in Holyrood and Westminster we would have an appointed Lord Governor in charge, looking after UK interests.

Why would they let the Falklands control their EEZ if they could just claim it as their own.

the last line in this link http://www.offshorepost.com/premier-oil-scraps-drilling-rig-with-immediate-effect/shows the Falklands government controls their EEZ

[Capeesh]

^^^The UK controls the seabed around the Falkland islands according to the link HERE

This quote from the link sums it up...

The Foreign Office minister, Lord Malloch-Brown, said: "Successful completion of this process will confirm the boundaries of the UK's jurisdiction over its continental shelf, thus ensuring our sovereign rights to manage the shelf for future generations."

 

The UK document deals concisely with the Argentinian counter-claim, stating: "The UK has no doubt about its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands and the surrounding maritime area."

Edited February 14, 2016 by Capeesh

[Ghostrider]

^ You're entirely missing the point. There is no cast in tablets of stone formula for a BOT, or even a Crown Dependency, each one is unique in its own way.

 

You haggle, and you either end up with something that both parties can live with, or you hit 'Plan B' and run with full independence. With independence (unlike the devolution the nats dressed up as "independence") we take everything and Westminster/ the Crown retains nothing. Potentially losing everything tends to concentrate the minds of them about to be losing to address the situation seriously and realistically.

 

Forget everything you read about BOT's, Crown Dependencies etc, forget everything you know about them, forget everything you think you know about them, for in the bottom line that informtion is irrelevant. The only reason they have been brough up is as proof that "that type of thing" is an established and workable principle, that's all. We do not want to be the same as The Falklands, or Bermuda, or the Isle of Man or wherever. We cannot be, for we are not them, and they are not us. We need what is best for our own unique circumstances and situation. There is no blueprint to follow, there is no "one size fits all" formula "off the shelf" package to pull down, it is a case of starting off with a blank sheet and buidling from scratch, nothing is on the table, and nothing is off the table until both sides accept a proposal for how it will be.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Ghostrider

[whalsa]

^^^ Could not have said it better myself Ghostrider! We are not seeking to be a carbon copy of any other self governing island group. The point is there are many examples which show it can be done and from which we can take inspiration about which aspects work well and which don't. 

Regarding the Fiscal case we do have rough some rough figures but we are constrained by the fact that the SIC financial report only comes out every 6 years. Fortunately the last one was 2010 so we will perhaps have another this year. 

You should bear in mind this campaign is in its infancy and Wir Shetland is not a political party claiming to have all the answers. We are campaigning for self governance. Should we achieve a referendum on whether it should happen or not there will be plenty of time before then to provide voters with the information they need to make an informed decision.