Self-sustaining Shetland

[Ghostrider]

^ It'll certainly no be very prosperous wi da millstanes o' multiple layers o' governments stikin dir oar in hingin boot wir necks. Dey aa need fodder, an ir is laekly ta tak da feet fae you is drag things idda rich direction, kinda laek wirkin wi a swidden yowe stikin athin a cru grind.

 

Keep things simple, let fok mak dir ain decisions, an let dem keep is muckle o' whit dey mak is possible.

[Wheelsup]

Urabug, Your outlook for Shetland is very bleak and depressing. Where are you going to move to?

[whalsa]

The possibilities for a self governing Shetland are almost endless. Yes there would be a lot to consider and a lot to fund but there would also be things which we are currently funding which we would no longer have to - bombing foreign countries, trident, railways and EU funding for example. 

Would you not rather your taxes were spent in Shetland instead of being sucked to Brussels, London or Edinburgh and redistributed by politicians who don't give a damn about us?

We would be able to protect our core industries and use the proceeds to develop others for the future. There are plenty of island groups who thrive with self governance, why would we be any different? 

[Roachmill]

I don't think anyone is against improving the quality of life in and for Shetland. The polarising issue that comes up time and time again is the incessant SNP bashing. Whether said bashing is founded or not, it is the constant negativity that appears to stir folk up (myself included) and gets nowhere.

 

I do not believe the SNP and SG to be all bad. Neither do I believe them to be all good. However, when all you see from the same ardent WS supporters (Tinkler, Inkster etc.) is a constant stream of SNP bashing, (again, whether founded or not) it leads to conflict. Needless and pointless conflict.

 

About the only thing that has kept me from completely discounting WS is a small glimmer of sense emanating from Whalsa's keyboard. A clear belief in the core principles of WS, along with an acceptance that everything *on any side* *isn't always perfect* makes for a basis for actual debate and subsequently the option of progress. And there is so much progress to be made that the never ending stream of "SNP BAAAD" daily diatribes pretty much kill most folks belief that any progress is indeed possible.

 

Personally, I'm fed up with it. When it comes to talk of improving Shetland, I don't care if the SNP were spawned from the depths of Hell (or not). I want to see those at the helm being capable of looking forward and acknowledging that nobody is indeed perfect.

[Wheelsup]

^  I tend to agree.    And also you could substitute Tory, Liberal or Labour instead of SNP.

[whalsa]

I do not disagree with you Roachmill, however as usual I urge people to focus on the idea rather than peoples individual comments. I would also add that there is fault on both sides of the debate - the other day I was personally attacked over social media by SNP supporters and I hadn't even directly criticised the SNP let alone said anything personal or inflammatory. 

It is difficult to not be negative as one of the main reasons the group exists is because we have legitimate grievances. My posts are by no means always positive but I tend to emphasise that said grievances are the fault of a mixture of our tiers of Government, not solely blamed upon the SNP. 

It doesn't matter to me what Party is in power, I don't trust any of them to protect our interests. This is because our needs are often different from elsewhere and we are too remote and low in numbers to have these particular needs recognised let alone prioritised. Distancing ourselves politically from the tribal, competing interests of UK party politics can only be a good thing in my view. You will still have competing local interests but it would be much easier to affect change on a local level than having to try and ask the EU, Westminster or Holyrood to change something. 

[brian.smith]

Roachmill that was very well put. I to hate the party political system and think it just breeds central policies where the majority of the population live and rural and remote areas are left to feed of scraps.

Whalsa you are always balanced here but WS are in danger of being looked at based on the comments that are being made by the usual suspects on various online sources.

 

The ideals of WS are in theory good and anything that can improve island life has and will be considered by all apart from those arguing with WS on those previously mentioned online pages.

 

It is about time WS came out and made a statement about this bickering before the good ideas are lost.

[Urabug]

Urabug, Your outlook for Shetland is very bleak and depressing. Where are you going to move to?

I'm a Shetlander through and through,parents both sides born and breed here in shetland  through many generations and I see no need to go anywhere.

 

Contented with my lot and to stay where i am.

 

If only some others were as contented and not constantly vying for change,then I'm sure the world would be a happier place. 

 

My outlook for Shetland is far from bleak,but after many years of prosperity the next generation will find it difficult to adjust to a society with less.

 

I was brought up to live within my means,and not get myself into debt . 

 

Wise words from my parents and others which have served me well.

 

All this "self sustainable Shetland " is pure nonsense.

[Ghostrider]

The "bickering" is a two way street, WS cannot stick their head above the parapet and say anything about anything, regrdless whether it involves the SNP or not, without a small number of, apprently SNP faithful, who apparently cannot accept there is any other way than the SNP one true way, jumping on it like a cat on a mouse and attacking it in any way they can, and as often as not with mistruths and falsehoods.

 

Its bait, its trolling, and probably should be ignored, but if you do, you risk folk reading it actually believing some of the b/s that's been thrown up with no other purpose than to discredit WS by any means possible. The SNP have the upper hand with this, as they are big enough and old enough that few people don't know what they're all about, WS is still a relatively small and young organisation which IMHO could ill afford to to risk misinformation about them to stand uncountered. Unfortuntely when false allegation and rebuttal piles on top of false allegation and rebuttal ad infinitum, the cumulative effect does end up looking like "bickering".

 

Hopefully once this election fever period passes, during which some folk cannot seem to perceive anything less than absolute support and praise for their beliefs, as being an out and out attack on them. Things can return to a reasonably civilised debate of the issues in their own right, and this taking a pot shot and running away habit that's taken over for now will die away.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ghostrider

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Roachmill that was very well put. I to hate the party political system and think it just breeds central policies where the majority of the population live and rural and remote areas are left to feed of scraps.

Whalsa you are always balanced here but WS are in danger of being looked at based on the comments that are being made by the usual suspects on various online sources.

 

The ideals of WS are in theory good and anything that can improve island life has and will be considered by all apart from those arguing with WS on those previously mentioned online pages.

 

It is about time WS came out and made a statement about this bickering before the good ideas are lost.

 

And will you be asking all involved to do the same or are you just proposing that a statement should come from the WS only?  Cameron to issue a gagging order to all tories never to post on social media again?  Corbyn to say no more free speech?  Sturgeon to announce zip it?  I can't even remember who the leader of the libdems is ... or all party leaders, all campaign group leaders to say "Anything you see any of our members say is not coming from us?"  Where do you want the line to be drawn?  Friends of the Earth saying "Don't post anything against the Japanese whaling because the Green Party will think it's come from them?"

 

Many people are fed up of the elections already.  Many people don't comment and just read.  Many people have got the sense to read in-between the lines.  And many people won't give a flying {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'} about what is on social media because they've already made their minds up and not only that, can see beyond the forthcoming elections, and can understand that there's more going on than the elections.

[brian.smith]

 

Roachmill that was very well put. I to hate the party political system and think it just breeds central policies where the majority of the population live and rural and remote areas are left to feed of scraps.

Whalsa you are always balanced here but WS are in danger of being looked at based on the comments that are being made by the usual suspects on various online sources.

 

The ideals of WS are in theory good and anything that can improve island life has and will be considered by all apart from those arguing with WS on those previously mentioned online pages.

 

It is about time WS came out and made a statement about this bickering before the good ideas are lost.

 

And will you be asking all involved to do the same or are you just proposing that a statement should come from the WS only?  Cameron to issue a gagging order to all tories never to post on social media again?  Corbyn to say no more free speech?  Sturgeon to announce zip it?  I can't even remember who the leader of the libdems is ... or all party leaders, all campaign group leaders to say "Anything you see any of our members say is not coming from us?"  Where do you want the line to be drawn?  Friends of the Earth saying "Don't post anything against the Japanese whaling because the Green Party will think it's come from them?"

 

Many people are fed up of the elections already.  Many people don't comment and just read.  Many people have got the sense to read in-between the lines.  And many people won't give a flying {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'} about what is on social media because they've already made their minds up and not only that, can see beyond the forthcoming elections, and can understand that there's more going on than the elections.

yea ok I give up the two posters above are the perfect example of why you wont succeed

[Who Knows]

Wir Shetland to achieve its aims will need to gain electoral support from the people of Shetland to evidence a clear and democratic mandate to speak for the people of Shetland.

 

If Wir Shetland are a serious movement they are going to have get their hands "dirty" and stand in elections as a political party with the aim to furtherance Shetland's best interest with the ultimate aim of creating an independent country.

 

As much as some comments emanating from WS is SNP bad the reality is both organisations actually have the same principles at heart. One for Scotland as the country requiring more local democracy and the other Shetland.

 

Irrespective of whether political issues stem from Westminister or Holyrood WS should just concentrate on is it in Shetland best interest or not. If they do not the polite message coming from WS is with due respect we do not believe this is Shetland best interest as to address the needs of Shetland we need ............... The need being the positive message about the alternative strategy or plan that address the local needs of Shetland to inform us about possible alternate solutions that address the issue from a Shetland perspective.

 

U.K. and Scottish Government in the long term are not WS solution for Shetland however standing and campaigning to inform those that live here why Shetland autonomy is in my humble opinion the only way for WS to take forward the case.

 

WS made a serious error by not standing in the forthcoming election. Registering a party is not exactly difficult given the numerous groups standing on the list votes across Scotland . Remember it took the SNP 80 years to get a referendum on their principle aim and then failed to convince the majority to support them.

[Ghostrider]

If Wir Shetland are a serious movement they are going to have get their hands "dirty" and stand in elections as a political party with the aim to furtherance Shetland's best interest with the ultimate aim of creating an independent country.

 

As much as some comments emanating from WS is SNP bad the reality is both organisations actually have the same principles at heart. One for Scotland as the country requiring more local democracy and the other Shetland.

 

Hopefully in time WS will feel themselves to be in a position to start fielding candidates, however its wasteful and pointless unless there is a realistic chance of doing so being worthwhile. WS is six months old and still estblishing itself, most of the ground work required to field a candidate in the SG election that had a fighting chance would have needed to have been well advanced before WS even existed. All that fielding a candidate at the 11th hour without adequate resources, which it what it would have been, was to risk doing more harm than good. Putting forward candidates for next year's SIC elections, I think is a far more realistic timeline to aspire to, and IMHO probably of greater value in the big picture. As lets face it, what would a WS MSP be able to achieve in Holyrood. not a lot in my estimations. The changes WS are promoting can be pursued much more effectively from teh Town Hall and Westminster under the current constitutional arrangement, Holyrood is little other than a spectator.

 

There is common ground between WS and the SNP in that both support the principle of increased local controls for a specific geographic area, but that is where any similiarity begins and ends. The problem with the SNP is that although they push for Scottish independence, they, at both party and local candidate level are the only ones who have out and out dismissed the idea of increased local control for Shetland, which is quite ironic really, and what I would choose to term hypocrisy.

 

As long as they retain that view, and maintain with it what arguably is an untenable stance, it is all but inevitable that WS supporters will feel they deserve at least some criticism. As things stand at the moment the SNP are the No. 1 obstacle standing in the way of what WS is promoting, which would be bad enough, but they have the gall to deny us the very thing that they're so busy trying to win for themselves. As far as I'm aware WS has no view on the SNP's aspirations of seeking independence for Scotland, basically they can please themselves, and if the SNP were to have the courtesy to extend the same back to Shetland, I doubt WS supporters would find the need to comment on them much if any at all. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.....and all that.

[Capeesh]

 ...The problem with the SNP is at both party and local candidate level are the only ones who have out and out dismissed the idea of increased local control for Shetland, which is quite ironic really, and what I would choose to term hypocrisy...

Don't let facts get in the way of an epic SNP Bad rant.

 

Here's a few quotes found in a few minutes on google...

 

"...I look forward to Wir Shetland flourishing as a forum that brings together everyone interested in arguing a case that Shetland would be enhanced by having more political autonomy...."

 

Danus Skene SNP candidate.

 

"...The Wir Shetland initiative is greatly to be welcomed. This is the right time to press Shetland’s interest as the national governance debate evolves..."

 

Danus Skene SNP candidate.

 

"We have previously committed to looking at devolving more autonomy to our islands and decentralising decision-making to those who live and work in these unique parts of Scotland. We want to work to make our islands stronger and let them flourish."

 

Nicola Sturgeon First Minister of Scotland and SNP leader.

 

"We want to empower island communities."

 

Nicola Sturgeon First Minister of Scotland and SNP leader.

[Ghostrider]

^ You can come with as many "politic speak" quotes as you like as you like, as not one of them proves one damn thing, excatly the same as Sturgeon saying that they will "look at exerting downward pressure on ferry fares" means diddly squat. "Looking" achieves nothing, any fool can look at anything, it takes a whole lot more than just "looking" to make effective positive improvements.

 

"I look forward to Wir Shetland flourishing as a forum" - A forum?!?! His choice of word proves he hasn't the first clue what he's talking about.

 

"This is the right time to press Shetland’s interest" - Dead right, WS is. Getting out, before we get dragged down any further by those in Holyrood, Westminster and Brussels.

 

"We have previously committed to looking at devolving more autonomy to our islands....." - A "committment" that they have totally failed to deliver anything on, probably because once again, all they committed to was that infernal word, "looking".

 

The fact remains at noplace and no time has either the SNP as a party or their local candidate ever said "Yes, Shetland can have a referendum for their own self-determination whenever they wish", and almost certainly never will, because all the rhetoric coming out of both is about a united independent Scotland which includes Shetland.

 

Don't get me wrong, its very "nice" of them to make us feel so "welcome" and "included", but when all the love you ever feel from them is the same as the foster kid stuck on the end of a table in a family with 12 kids of their own feels, its all very distasteful and forced.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Ghostrider