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Self-sustaining Shetland


BGDDisco
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^^^ Good luck with that, I very much doubt the UK will surrender one single penny of the revenues they enjoy from the waters surrounding Shetland, of course I may be wrong.

I think that you have missed the point.....

 

If Shetland decides that it wants out then, ultimately, there is absolutely nothing that the UK could do about it..

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^^^ Good luck with that, I very much doubt the UK will surrender one single penny of the revenues they enjoy from the waters surrounding Shetland, of course I may be wrong.

 

I think that you have missed the point.....

 

If Shetland decides that it wants out then, ultimately, there is absolutely nothing that the UK could do about it..

Are we going to unilaterally declare independence if the UK doesn't feel like losing the revenues it currently collects?
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^^^ If that is what the people of Shetland democratically decide then that is what we would do. Becoming a British Overseas Territory would be mutually beneficial for us and the UK. There are plenty of other examples where this works well. 

 

IMO sticking with the status quo is unacceptable. We will always be at the whim of people who don't care or don't understand our needs if we don't have self governance. 

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^^^ Good luck with that, I very much doubt the UK will surrender one single penny of the revenues they enjoy from the waters surrounding Shetland, of course I may be wrong.

I think that you have missed the point.....

 

If Shetland decides that it wants out then, ultimately, there is absolutely nothing that the UK could do about it..

Are we going to unilaterally declare independence if the UK doesn't feel like losing the revenues it currently collects?

 

 

Its either that, or the status quo, there are no other choices.

 

Given our location the UK would be burning a lot of bridges letting us go our own way, better they come to an "understanding" with us than have to send and maintain an occupying force.

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^^^ Good luck with that, I very much doubt the UK will surrender one single penny of the revenues they enjoy from the waters surrounding Shetland, of course I may be wrong.

I think that you have missed the point.....

 

If Shetland decides that it wants out then, ultimately, there is absolutely nothing that the UK could do about it..

Are we going to unilaterally declare independence if the UK doesn't feel like losing the revenues it currently collects?

 

I would be very surprised if events ever resulted in UDI but, not wanting to lose anything, the UK would almost certainly indulge in some form of "brinksmanship".before they attempted to negotiate anything at all.

 

IMHO, it is inevitable that they would have to accept the result of any democratic decision my by Shetland.

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^^^ If that is what the people of Shetland democratically decide then that is what we would do. Becoming a British Overseas Territory would be mutually beneficial for us and the UK. There are plenty of other examples where this works well. 

 

IMO sticking with the status quo is unacceptable. We will always be at the whim of people who don't care or don't understand our needs if we don't have self governance.

 

I agree the status quo is unacceptable, Shetland does need more autonomy but I just can't see the UK government finding it beneficial to give up the tax revenue they currently collect from the waters around Shetland, in fact I think they would fight tooth and nail to keep it.

None of the examples of BOT's match our circumstances.

Unilateral declarations of independence also carry a risk (see Kosovo as an example, a large number of countries don't recognise them as an independent country.)

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Still not seen any figures yet

Figures for what Brian? If you had attended our launch then you would have seen some crude figures, used to illustrate the viability of our arguments. More concrete figures will become available long before any referendum is held. 

 

its Hard to plan for these things living in Fair Isle so if you can point to some info that would be good

 

 

Brian, have a look at Wir Shetland and there's also a WS Facebook page that's worth checking up on. Have a read of them and see what you think.

 

It gives figures George but no indication of taxation revenue you see yes it is great to have control of ones destiny but hard facts are needed saying the trade balance ia X only means that some people are making a lot of money it doesnt tell people what the income will be to provide services

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^^^I cant imagine any circumstance where the UK would give up one single brass farthing of the tax money they collect from the waters around Shetland.

Maybe once the oil has been sucked dry they'll throw us a bone but even then if there's money to be made they'll want a finger in the pie.

The bargaining chip you suggest of UDI (unilateral declaration of independence) is an empty threat IMHO.

Kosovo proves that a very significant number of countries around the world do not want chunks of their territory declaring independence, if they won't recognise Kosovo as an independent country I think it highly unlikely they would recognise Shetland as one.

England has no track record of granting its offshore islands self determination that would be the United Kingdom which Scotland is part of.

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^^^Unlike the Scottish referendum this campaign isn't calling for independence though is it?

If the question is... "do you want Shetland to be a British colony/dependency/territory"

I would want a cast iron guarantee the UK would surrender all the revenues they collect now from the waters surrounding Shetland before they would get my vote.

I think the chances of this happening are extremely slim.

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^^^Unlike the Scottish referendum this campaign isn't calling for independence though is it?

If the question is... "do you want Shetland to be a British colony/dependency/territory"

I would want a cast iron guarantee the UK would surrender all the revenues they collect now from the waters surrounding Shetland before they would get my vote.

I think the chances of this happening are extremely slim.

Of course it is calling for independence.  What on earth do you think that a Crown Dependency or BOT is if it is not an independent entity (albeit, one with "special" ties) ?

 

I just don't get the "it's OK for Scotland but, not for Shetland" argument..

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^^^Sovereign nation = independence

None of the BOT's or Crown dependencies are sovereign nations, they are under the sovereignty of the UK.

Completely different scenarios.

If Shetland was seeking independence like Scotland was in the referendum there would be no difference whatsoever, we would probably have to go through all the hoops the Scottish government had to go through to get to the referendum stage with a similar agreement to the Edinburgh agreement between Holyrood and Westminster.

This campaign as far as I'm aware is NOT seeking independence.

Edited by Capeesh
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^^^Sovereign nation = independence

None of the BOT's or Crown dependencies are sovereign nations, they are under the sovereignty of the UK.

Completely different scenarios.

If Shetland was seeking independence like Scotland was in the referendum there would be no difference whatsoever, we would probably have to go through all the hoops the Scottish government had to go through to get to the referendum stage with a similar agreement to the Edinburgh agreement between Holyrood and Westminster.

This campaign as far as I'm aware is NOT seeking independence.

 

The campaign as far as I understand it is NOT seeking any one option, but is rather a vehicle through which to inform, encourage and co-ordinate on the subject of increased levels of self-determination. It just so happens that at the moment the majority of people who are interested enough to have become involved and expressed an opinion, are in favour of the BOT status option, so that is what is currently being concentrated on, which may convey an impression that that is the campaign's stated goal, but that to the best of my understanding is unintentional and simply wrong. That situation however could very easily change at any time for any number of reasons, and Crown Dependency, independence etc discussion replace it at centre stage. At the end of the day however, what the campaign may believe is the most desirable outcome is irrelevant, its what the electorate of Shetland decides upon that matters. And hopefully the campaign can be instrumental in providing information on all possible options, whatever they are, so that folk can decide for themselves what they want, and then assist in enabling folk to democratically pursue that to successful conclusion.

 

Seeing as you've mentioned it, so-called Scottish Independence and Crown Dependencies etc.What was on offer in the Scottish Independence referendum was not independence, they had no plans to become a sovereign nation, they planned to keep the current British monarchy as head of state in their "independent" Scotland, which by your own admission does not constitute independence, furthermore they planned to continue using British currency. In many ways it could be argued that the so-called "independence" Scotland was so excited about was actually a lower status than that enjoyed by either Crown Dependencies or BOT's.

 

That said, it was hardly suprising that there was little resistance to the so called 'Edinburgh Agreement' from Westminster, along with the fact that argubly in and of itself it wasn't worth the paper it was written on, given that the only "promise" made in it that couldn't have been torn to shreds by even a very mediorce lawyer, was that Westminster wouldn't try and prevent Edinburgh holding the referendum. A "promise" that was of questionable purpose in any case, as it would have been an interesting legal debate to have observed as to whether Westminster had the right to prevent it in the first place.

 

Regardless whether we were to go for Crown Dependency or BOT, based on the status and rights of the existing territories which hold it, we'd be a whole lot more "independent" than Scotland would have been had what was on the table for them been implemented in its fullest form.

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