Ghostrider Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 My hunch is it will support my argument, but of course I may be wrong, I'm sure people can come to their own conclusions Maybe I'm just suffering from sleep deprivation after this needless messing round with the clocks last night and not seeing the glaringly obvious, but what exactly is your argument/point that you refer to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whalsa Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Im a little like Capeesh here I prefer an SNP government but as a candidate I prefer Tavish however I don't like the Liberal politics all a bit mixed up I know but I am for some form of self governance for Shetland if the Fiscal case can be made Jeez work that out it has confused meOn the face of it this may seem contradictory but it really isn't. Personally I don't think anyone should blindly follow any political party, I vote on a case by case basis even though I am sure this would horrify some people. In this case I am supporting Tavish because I believe he is the best candidate. I don't agree with much of the Liberals overall policy but I do believe Tavish will try his best for the Isles and since he is the only one who has said anything in support of Wir Shetland voting for him is an obvious choice IMO. brian.smith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Im a little like Capeesh here I prefer an SNP government but as a candidate I prefer Tavish however I don't like the Liberal politics all a bit mixed up I know but I am for some form of self governance for Shetland if the Fiscal case can be made Jeez work that out it has confused me Makes perfect sense. I never thought the Scottish Government was a good idea, and its proven itself to be everything I feared it would become, just a waste of resources and an added layer of bureaucracy that serves no useful purpose. But as we have to put up with it for the meantime damage limitation has to be initiated from time to time as required. I've never voted in the Scottish elections previously, as I felt the parliament they served was an irrelevant toothless talking shop. However things have progressed during this last term, and appear to be headed in the near future that require a statement to be made, so for purely tactical reasons I probably will vote for Tavish this time. Sorry Brian, but it is my belief that the SNP is a bad government, and especially bad for Shetland, and it is their push for independence while remaining within the EU that brings me out to vote, and to try and do my bit to stop the SNP taking over Shetland s well. IMHO being within the EU is bad for Shetland, an independent Scotland with Shetland as part of it would be the worst that could happen to Shetland. I would much prefer if Shetland remained part of a larger nation that provided mutual benefit, but if Scotland goes independent we're going to be stuck with being an integral part of them, and there's no benefit to us in that at all, in fact there's only the polar opposite, hence I support Wir Shetland's aims to try and at least be prepared to get ourselves out of Scotland and prevent the worst case scenario for us. Were it not for the Scottish SNP government being so hell bent on staying in the EU and being independent, I would rate the need for and the desirability for seperation for Shetland considerably lower than I do right now. It is the Scottish SNP Government's current policies that are providing the sense of urgency and driving Shetland sepertion forward for me, nothing else. Da Burra Shop and whalsa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 I sort of Agree with you Ghostie but I dont have the answer hence the reason I am in favour of autonomy for Shetland as long as a fiscal case can be made. However watching the constant rubbish wir Shetland are posting in facebook ST etc is doing nothing for the case the arguments need to be financial based there is no point spouting ancient figures and moaning because up to date figures are not available. Yes I agree Europe is doing nothing but damaging the local economy and the scare tactics now being employed by the London mob wont help the cause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urabug Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 With just over 22,000 of a population,takeing into consideration all the various taxes that is possible to be collected,surely this could and would only contribute a fraction of the total amount required to keep all our essential services operating. We would just as,we have always been, and will always be, dependent on funding from outwith Shetland. Autonomy --a self governing community,would never work in Shetland as we cannot even agree on how the Charitable Trust money should be invested and spent. God help us if we have to agree how to spend what pittance might be awarded from Holyrood or Westminster. Close Brussels,and get rid of Holyrood,move Westminster up to about York that is what we need thebfg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whalsa Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 ^^^ That is simply incorrect Urabug. To work out a territory or nations income you do not simply multiply population by tax. To cite one example, the Falkland Islands have a population of approximately 3000 and they don't rely on external funding, they also have the 10th highest GDP per capita in the world. Shetland could be more than self sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urabug Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I would be astonished if all the tax collected in Shetland could pay for all the different departments of the council,health service,police ect,ect. To be self sufficent surely tax would be our main source of income if not our only,and the books would have to balance. Nope cannot see that happening here! Could be the Falkland Islanders are used to liveing on less,and therfore put less pressure and demands on there public purse! Cannot see the folk in Shetland wanting less,we always want more and more. For instance a large amount of the fish landed in Shetland is transported to the mainland for processing therefore not bringing as much benifit to the islands as it might if processing was done here. Guess it comes down to costs! Better the way we are at least we know where everything is comeing from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whalsa Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Urabug, did you pay any attention to what I said? By your logic no small territory can possibly be economically self-sufficient which is simply untrue as I pointed out with the Falkland Islands example. A self governing Shetland with control of it's EEZ would have multiple revenue streams available from industries such as fishing, aquaculture, oil and gas, tourism, decommissioning works and agriculture to name a few. Furthermore with self governing powers there would be considerable scope to expand these and many other industries. The recent hindrance of the Whalsay pier extension and factory development being a prime example of a missed opportunity. A colossal amount of money is made year in year out from Shetland's waters yet we see very little of this money remaining in Shetland.I feel you are selling Shetlanders short. If similar systems work for island groups such as Faroe, the Falklands, Aland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles (to name a few) then why exactly can't it work here where we are lucky enough to have such an abundance of resources on our doorstep as well as being in a strategic location in the North Sea? I have to admit I am surprised and saddened by your apparent attitude that we must be a drain on the resources of the rest of the country and I certainly hope this downcast view is not widespread amongst my fellow islanders. George. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Burra Shop Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I would be astonished if all the tax collected in Shetland could pay for all the different departments of the council,health service,police ect,ect. To be self sufficent surely tax would be our main source of income if not our only,and the books would have to balance. Nope cannot see that happening here! Could be the Falkland Islanders are used to liveing on less,and therfore put less pressure and demands on there public purse! Cannot see the folk in Shetland wanting less,we always want more and more. For instance a large amount of the fish landed in Shetland is transported to the mainland for processing therefore not bringing as much benifit to the islands as it might if processing was done here. Guess it comes down to costs! Better the way we are at least we know where everything is comeing from.Should we become autonomous the incentive would be to land all fish caught in wir waters to be processed here, to do otherwise could incur an export tax on the unprocessed catch. But if things remain as is then wir economy will be eroded bit by bit to pay for electoral bribes in the central belt. George. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Burra Shop Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 The figures wir Shetland quotes are from 2010, and I doubt there is anyone who will claim that wir economy has gone down since then. Therefor the sums should be even more in wir favour, especially considering the reduction in funding from edinburgh in the ensuing time. George. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urabug Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Sorry not convinced by all this rhetoric. Shetland would be hard pushed to survive without outside help. Where would the Pension and welfare funds come from for one thing If and when we have to pay the full cost of postage,what will it cost to put a letter or package from London to Foula for instance. Hopefully that will be sorted before it happens in a few years time. Far better to be part of the UK where we can at least negotiate and hope for an equal or at least a better share of the cake ! Get rid of all the MSP,s and MEP,s that would save the country millions. Edited March 28, 2016 by Urabug thebfg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Burra Shop Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 What rhetoric? the figures in 2010 showed a £72 million surplus when all funding from outside Shetland was taken into account. And this figure did not include the taxes from folk offshore or the figures for petroleum tax or the fish being removed from our waters by third parties, all of which would accrue to an autonomous Shetland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urabug Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Well how can we be sure these figures are accurate and how far would £72 million pounds go to support everything . Do we know what Shetland costs the public purse .The economy has shrunk a bit since 2010 with the downturn in oil revenue ect. Nope! I'm not convinced one little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I have heard this 72 million figure before but what is ? is it revenue or value of product? If a salmon costs $30 how much is that in revenue to a government? Its one thing saying Shetland created 72 million in 2010 but what exactly is that taxation GDP what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian.smith Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) If a company makes 2 million profit it only contributes 400K to the exchequer less any capital or investment retention Edited March 28, 2016 by brian.smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.