Self-sustaining Shetland

[Roachmill]

^^get over the parking thing. He wasn't disabled and I never said someone that is shouldn't be parking in a disabled parking spot. If you can't park a car should you be driving the thing around on the roads at speed? It's part of a driving test!

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

^^get over the parking thing. He wasn't disabled and I never said someone that is shouldn't be parking in a disabled parking spot. If you can't park a car should you be driving the thing around on the roads at speed? It's part of a driving test!

 

So you mention parking and now say I should get over the parking thing.  Really?  You didn't mention speeding, you're the one who mentioned parking.  And you're now saying then that his day to day living whilst having cancer meant he wasn't disabled?

 

So just what was your reference to Steve Jobs' parking reference in aid of or were you just being obtuse?

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Any defence I am granting Westlake is not for her personally. You clearly have opinions on her as a person and that makes treating her the way John did okay somehow. Refusing to see how he pushed her into a corner doesn't mean he didn't do just that.

 

Amanda lists herself on Facebook as a public figure.  As mentioned above, we don't know if she was posting in her capacity as an individual or as a serving councillor.  The credit I will give her is that she didn't do a Wills. 

[Capeesh]

Of course, being told by a chairman and his committee how you should think, who you should vote for and what you should boycott causes no problems for those who agree with them.

The pillorying of Amanda Westlake is a fine example of what happens when you disagree.

By joining "wir Shetland" she obviously agreed with them regarding more powers for Shetland.

Why do you think she ended up quitting?

[Roachmill]

Not being able to park a car somehow becomes intolerance towards the disabled.

A man not being gentlemanly somehow becomes what, being sexist.

Driving at speed somehow becomes speeding.

Being cheeky somehow becomes being obtuse.

 

We could be here all day with that little lot!

 

So where are we then? John Tulloch responded in a perfectly acceptable manner to a question from a fellow member? Is that the jist of things?

Edited April 12, 2016 by Roachmill

[whalsa]

Right everyone I think we have gotten way off topic here. 

Amanda and John had a falling out, in my humble opinion there was fault on both sides (and significant back story) but what is done is done and arguing about it is detracting from the real issues - something which I am sure many of our opponents are delighted about. 

 

There are bigger issues at stake here than a few bruised egos or heated words. 

I would be happy if discussion would revert back to the purpose this thread was set up for. 

Wir Shetland is holding public roadshows in both Brae and Hillswick on the 16th and 17th of this month. Will any of you be attending?

Edited April 12, 2016 by whalsa

[whalsa]

My comment was supposed to get debate back on track not kill it entirely... 

[Urabug]

Wir Shetland is holding public roadshows in both Brae and Hillswick on the 16th and 17th of this month. Will any of you be attending?

How much do you pay

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Being recognised as a country in its own right.  Campaign for that.  

 

Example:  Apparently the Isle of Man is an independent country even though it's regarded as a crown dependent.  GB is a nation.

 

Why shouldn't Shetland be able to decide its own laws?

 

Surely the main goal is for Shetland to be recognised as a country?  Then, and once that is done, then the citizens of the Shetland Isles can decide where they stand on other policies democratically.  I just feel too many are getting bogged down on what is Wir Shetland's political stance on X and totally ignoring the overall goal.  I'm not saying that things like defence, healthcare, education and so forth aren't important because they are, but aren't they secondary issues?

 

Edited:  What I'm trying to say is that there has to be a mechanism so that other nations recognise that we have a legal right, if the citizens of the Shetland Isles so decide, for us to have the right to have our own elections and elect a Government.  Does becoming recognised as a country happen overnight? Then, and once a Government is formed, get recognised internationally.  So hypothetically speaking, what would happen if everyone voted for independents who supported the aims of Wir Shetland for the SIC?  Would we then be able to show that we had a government, albeit it was one that was regarded as a local government?  Would it matter if there were differing view points on defence?  Does it matter if those candidates who supported the idea of the Shetland Isles being a country in its own right were communist, tories, marxist, liberals, gay activists, labour or from the raving loony party? Would other countries then recognise us as a country?  Would Westminster send out bombers and try to reclaim Shetland?

Edited April 13, 2016 by Suffererof1crankymofo

[breeksy]

I won't be attending the roadshow as I won't be in Shetland.

 

Any other dates planned at any other locations?

[whalsa]

Being recognised as a country in its own right.  Campaign for that.  

 

Example:  Apparently the Isle of Man is an independent country even though it's regarded as a crown dependent.  GB is a nation.

 

Why shouldn't Shetland be able to decide its own laws?

 

Surely the main goal is for Shetland to be recognised as a country?  Then, and once that is done, then the citizens of the Shetland Isles can decide where they stand on other policies democratically.  I just feel too many are getting bogged down on what is Wir Shetland's political stance on X and totally ignoring the overall goal.  I'm not saying that things like defence, healthcare, education and so forth aren't important because they are, but aren't they secondary issues?

 

Edited:  What I'm trying to say is that there has to be a mechanism so that other nations recognise that we have a legal right, if the citizens of the Shetland Isles so decide, for us to have the right to have our own elections and elect a Government.  Does becoming recognised as a country happen overnight? Then, and once a Government is formed, get recognised internationally.  So hypothetically speaking, what would happen if everyone voted for independents who supported the aims of Wir Shetland for the SIC?  Would we then be able to show that we had a government, albeit it was one that was regarded as a local government?  Would it matter if there were differing view points on defence?  Does it matter if those candidates who supported the idea of the Shetland Isles being a country in its own right were communist, tories, marxist, liberals, gay activists, labour or from the raving loony party? Would other countries then recognise us as a country?  Would Westminster send out bombers and try to reclaim Shetland?

 

What you are alluding to above seems to me to be a UDI (Unilateral Declaration of Independence). While this may be a valid strategy, I believe it is too radical a step for most Shetlanders to get on board with at this time. We retain the right to self determination which is enshrined in the UN charter. 

 

I won't be attending the roadshow as I won't be in Shetland.

 

Any other dates planned at any other locations?

 

We are planning on having more over the coming months, I shall post it on here when we get another one organised. 

[paulb]

is udi not in fact treason. a democratic disbanding is very diffrent. an attempt to overthrow the lawful government which udi is unlawful . 

[whalsa]

is udi not in fact treason. a democratic disbanding is very diffrent. an attempt to overthrow the lawful government which udi is unlawful . 

A Unilateral Declaration of Independence would be secession which is not exactly treason but is unlikely to be looked on favourably by the British Government. However, international law contains no prohibition on declarations of independence.

 

The fact of the matter is Shetland is quite entitled to decide its place in the world as long as it is democratic. The UK cannot bang on about self determination for other areas (such as the Falklands) and then deny it when it crops up on their doorstep. 

[George.]

is udi not in fact treason. a democratic disbanding is very diffrent. an attempt to overthrow the lawful government which udi is unlawful . 

 

Treason of who? Your parent country? That surely means that you're not allowed to grow up and leave home, A Unilateral declaration of independence surely has to be acceptable as every man is entitled to his own life, is he not.

[paulb]

if we are British we are subjects of the queen. our view of it does not matter we are subjects. if we want independence then we are no longer British. as far as i remember our overseas territories residents dont have the right to live in the uk. do we really want to need a passport to visit our families south. at the moment i dont see a decent shetland party that could make it  happen. it may sound nice having a council made of independents but it wont result in a movement that will push for extra powers. do we even want the caliber of politician we have to control  our lives. a bit worried if a ponced up council was responsible for our defense.