Self-sustaining Shetland

[paulb]

iceland does all tjat brian says and yes it does all need to be planned. but could we do it alone or would orkney join in. 

[brian.smith]

oh yea and the famous HMRC

[brian.smith]

Saying all that has been considered is good but has any assessment of revenue been done fiscally what is the fishing industry worth

[Kavi Ugl]

I wouldn't worry about "post oil" just now.

 

Don't be fooled by the lay-offs announced at Sullom Voe or the various "cost cuttings"(Scatsta).

 

There's more oil and gas around Shetland(especially west) as ever there was and don't forget the oil and gas fields that haven't even been discovered yet.

 

The future for an independant Shetland is glowing and despite what has been "stolen" from us so far, there's enough left to make our financial eyes water.

 

Infact, if we had full control of our oil and gas fields it could be run in a far more stable and consistant way, unlike the jerky, "boom and bust" oil companies.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Kavi Ugl

[Colin]

Saying all that has been considered is good but has any assessment of revenue been done fiscally what is the fishing industry worth

It's not a question of "what it's worth".  More a question of "what it could/should be worth".

 

When I came to Shetland first, there were (local) boats everywhere and, quite a number of fish processing plants as well.

 

Compare that with the (deliberately) denuded vista of today and you will begin to see what Westminster and the EU has done to the local economy.  Sold us out to "big business" interests via the CFP amongs other devices..

 

OK, that's not the whole picture.  More powerful boats have meant greater catching power and, with a limited quantity of fish available, the number of local boats will have reduced naturally(?) but, the overall effect on Shetland has been nothing but negative. 

Technically, it's "our fish" in "our waters" and, fishing "rights"(?) should not have been sold off to the highest bidder..

[brian.smith]

Yes but it still doesn't give a potential income and if your proposing that this would be the main income then some sort of figures must be available

[Colin]

Brain,

 

I wasn't proposing anything....  I was merely pointing out that, 30 years ago, there were dozens of local boats earning a good living for fishermen and, that were a number of fish processing plants, also earning a living for people.

 

As for the figures..  I don't have them but, based on currently available figures (which should be available) a fairly simple extrapolation should get you into the ball park..

 

This all, of course, would depend on a sufficient number of people (preferably locals) being willing/able to invest in new vessels and processing plants.

[whalsa]

The campaign has only just begun Brian, figures will be made available in due course.

 

The fact of the matter is a vast amount of money is made each year from the fish in Shetlands waters but only a fraction of that money comes to Shetland.

 

Open discussion and questions being raised is all good for the debate but everyone should keep in mind that this will not happen overnight. If the idea gains support and we have a referendum there will be enough information for each voter to make an informed decision.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that we have the resources here to govern ourselves. Not only that but I also believe it is the best way forward for us, our children and our grand children. Ultimately everyone will have to make up their own minds, in time the Wir Shetland group or whatever it becomes will provide people with the reasons and facts to back up why this is a golden opportunity for all of us.

[northerndiver]

From the Wir Shetland Facebook page

"Fun Facts:- In 2010-11 the Shetland Regional gross domestic product was £485 million, and that the trade balance was £131 million. in 2010-11 Shetland generated a positive exchequer balance of £82 million. IE Shetland paid in taxes £82 million more than was received in funding."

and

The source report can be found here:- http://www.shetland.gov.uk/coins/submissiondocuments.asp?submissionid=14530

[Capeesh]

What would be Shetlands route to a referendum on independence be?

We have the recent example of Scotland's referendum it went as follows...

1)The SNP was formed who are in favour of Scottish independence,

2)Scotland reconvened its national parliament in a devolution settlement,

3)The SNP gained a majority in that parliament with a pledge to hold a referendum on independence,

4)Constitutional matters are reserved to the UK parliament the Scottish government had to ask the UK government for permission to hold a referendum.

5)The UK granted permission conditionally in the Edinburgh agreemnt.

[whalsa]

From the Wir Shetland Facebook page

"Fun Facts:- In 2010-11 the Shetland Regional gross domestic product was £485 million, and that the trade balance was £131 million. in 2010-11 Shetland generated a positive exchequer balance of £82 million. IE Shetland paid in taxes £82 million more than was received in funding."

and

The source report can be found here:- http://www.shetland.gov.uk/coins/submissiondocuments.asp?submissionid=14530

Thank you for posting those useful figures. However the link doesn't seem to be working (not on my computer anyway).

Here is the link anyway: http://www.shetland.gov.uk/coins/viewSelectedDocument.asp?c=e%97%9Dc%94n%80%87

 

This proves that Shetland is currently a net contributor to the UK. With full rights over the fishing grounds and a larger share of the oil reserves this positive balance has the potential to be much higher, even with the additional administrative costs required for autonomy. 

[Colin]

Point 4 is where, for me anyway, it all comes apart...

 

Although I disagree with the SNP and it's main objective, why should any 'people' have to ask it's sitting government for permission(?) to hold a vote? 

[Capeesh]

Exactly Colin,

Shetland-We'd like to hold a referendum on independence

Westminster- NO

What then?

[whalsa]

There are a number of international treaties which enshrine the right to self determination of all peoples, including the UN Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. 

Westminster have the power to aid us in our goals and help us set up a mutually beneficial relationship going forward but they do NOT have the power to stop us deciding our own destiny. 

[Scorrie]

But......

 

SIC (in the 2013/14 figures) alone had a financial defecit of £18.31m on provision of services alone, they had to draw down on £21m reserves to meet the costs:

 

"2. In 2012/13, as recorded in the comprehensive income and expenditure statement, the council spent £178.725 million on the provision of public services and had an overall deficit on provision of services of £18.531 million. After taking account of statutory adjustments, the overall draw on reserves was £21.407 million,....."  

http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/docs/local/2013/fa_1213_shetland.pdf

 

That's a 20% of the extra £80m revenue generated in self-governing taxes smoked before we even start rebuilding Shetland.

 

 

I'm wary of any stats giving potential generated income, I'll lay money that the figures quoted will be at the top end of an pretty optimistic range.

I'm probably not alone in remembering the hype generated by the SNP drones in the runup to the Indy ref regarding how much extra oil money every Scotch person would receive in a 'brave new world'...... apparently we would all be eating with solid gold knives and forks and riding round on hover-llamas if we voted 'Yes', thanks to the extra oil revenue that would be arriving Tsunami-like upon the shores of Scotchland.

 

But now, with oil prices being where they are? To use a footie chant: " It's all gone quiet over there". 

 

However, Shetland on the same footing with the UK as Faroe is with Denmark? I'd go for that.