Wheelsup Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 In my mind, the notion of Shetland becoming a separate entity, either inside our outside Great Britain, has come about because of the threatened break-up of the United Kingdom by an entirely different group in the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffererof1crankymofo Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 to correct an error the isle of man has never been part of the uk. Who said it had? George. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 In my mind, the notion of Shetland becoming a separate entity, either inside our outside Great Britain, has come about because of the threatened break-up of the United Kingdom by an entirely different group in the South. I'm not going to disagree with that. As I think I've said on this thread before, the thought of Shetland being in the EU and in Scotland, but not in the UK is IMHO a worst for Shetland outcome scenario. Leave everything as it is, and its not great, but tolerable, unload the Continent and keep the rest as is would be okay. even unload Scotland and remain part of the UK and the EU I'd be willing to try, but pretty much any other scenario and Shetland is going to be better off going its own way. A lot of it is about "Too many Chiefs....", layers need rid of regardless, but it needs to be the right layers. Westminster maybe have never been brilliant, but adding the EU on top made them worse, and adding a Scottish Govt under them has been the pits. Its become a game of shift the blame and nobody being accountable to nobody for nothing, the multiple level approach to governing has been tried and failed, its time to strip right back to minimum tier government. Suffererof1crankymofo and Da Burra Shop 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffererof1crankymofo Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 I have gotten the impression people are suggesting this before and I always find it both strange and disappointing. Why have such little faith in your own people? There are many capable people in Shetland, why anyone would suggest otherwise is beyond me.There is little faith in the Wir Shetland group, I suspect, because of the hysterical, irrational, ill informed and downright nasty ranting of the vocal few on this and other forums. Well, I suppose the SNP could be regarded as being hysterical and irrational over the fact some Shetlanders want independence or more autonomy. Oh hang on, that's hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capeesh Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I have gotten the impression people are suggesting this before and I always find it both strange and disappointing. Why have such little faith in your own people? There are many capable people in Shetland, why anyone would suggest otherwise is beyond me.There is little faith in the Wir Shetland group, I suspect, because of the hysterical, irrational, ill informed and downright nasty ranting of the vocal few on this and other forums. No amount of "I don't speak for Wir Shetland" or "My views are my own" disclaimers is going to change the impression that this is the Wir Shetland MO. The Wir Shetland brand is already trashed by association and I fear that it may well be beyond salvage. If Wir Shetland is to have any semblance of credibility they need to very quickly disassociate themselves from those behaviours and start putting forward, and engaging in, sensible and intelligent debate. Until they do that the suggestion that "Shetland residents are too dumb and stupid to govern themselves" is certainly understandable.In a nut shell. I think you're wasting your time though, "wir Shetland" seems to me to have turned into an echo-chamber.The Amanda Westlake affair proves that even when people agree with the aims of the group, (She agreed enough to join), any questioning of the leadership is met with bullying and derision as evidenced by numerous comments on local forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whalsa Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I have gotten the impression people are suggesting this before and I always find it both strange and disappointing. Why have such little faith in your own people? There are many capable people in Shetland, why anyone would suggest otherwise is beyond me.There is little faith in the Wir Shetland group, I suspect, because of the hysterical, irrational, ill informed and downright nasty ranting of the vocal few on this and other forums. No amount of "I don't speak for Wir Shetland" or "My views are my own" disclaimers is going to change the impression that this is the Wir Shetland MO. The Wir Shetland brand is already trashed by association and I fear that it may well be beyond salvage. If Wir Shetland is to have any semblance of credibility they need to very quickly disassociate themselves from those behaviours and start putting forward, and engaging in, sensible and intelligent debate. Until they do that the suggestion that "Shetland residents are too dumb and stupid to govern themselves" is certainly understandable.In a nut shell. I think you're wasting your time though, "wir Shetland" seems to me to have turned into an echo-chamber.The Amanda Westlake affair proves that even when people agree with the aims of the group, (She agreed enough to join), any questioning of the leadership is met with bullying and derision as evidenced by numerous comments on local forums. The goals of Wir Shetland are long term. If our members are not happy with the current leadership or direction of the group then they will have their opportunity to elect new leadership at the next AGM. She may have agreed with some of our aims but given her apparent stance on rural schools I don't think she would have been able to remain in the group long term anyway. Regardless that carry on is past us now. For my part I will carry on trying to get the groups core message out and engage in debate in a reasonable fashion. Da Burra Shop and crofter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) The Amanda Westlake affair proves that even when people agree with the aims of the group, (She agreed enough to join), any questioning of the leadership is met with bullying and derision as evidenced by numerous comments on local forums. She joined WS for some reason, only she knows what it was, and she's not saying. Whatever it was couldn't have been very important though, given the speed she cut for the door. If this is Councillor material in action, god help us all, as the SIC is in a far worse state than they are known to be. Shetland needs folk that will grab it by the balls and pull it out of the U bend, not ones that keep on flushing. Edited April 16, 2016 by Ghostrider Da Burra Shop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whalsa Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 https://wirshetland.org/wp/index.php/2016/04/16/some-thoughts-on-the-upcoming-election/ Here is a statement from our Vice Chairman regarding the current situation for anyone who is interested. Very well said IMHO. Da Burra Shop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeksy Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Whalsa, if a political or quasi-political organisation can't cope with members not agreeing with every policy, then it's long term viability doesn't look good. You will have a very limited pool of people that would be 'eligible'. If that's the case then 'Wir' Shetland really needs to include a tick box membership eligibility checker with every form, so people don't waste their time and presumably money on an organisation that doesn't want them. Personally I would have thought that an organisation with the specific aim of Shetland having a greater say in its own affairs would want to maximise the number of members with that aim. But no - you have to be anti-SNP and anti-some education policy that I don't know much about and who knows what else. I suspect very few political movements and parties would survive if people had to agree on every policy. How were these policy decisions made? By the committee perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whalsa Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Whalsa, if a political or quasi-political organisation can't cope with members not agreeing with every policy, then it's long term viability doesn't look good. You will have a very limited pool of people that would be 'eligible'. If that's the case then 'Wir' Shetland really needs to include a tick box membership eligibility checker with every form, so people don't waste their time and presumably money on an organisation that doesn't want them. Personally I would have thought that an organisation with the specific aim of Shetland having a greater say in its own affairs would want to maximise the number of members with that aim. But no - you have to be anti-SNP and anti-some education policy that I don't know much about and who knows what else. I suspect very few political movements and parties would survive if people had to agree on every policy. How were these policy decisions made? By the committee perhaps?I am sorry breeksy but where did I say members have to agree with every policy? I actually thought our views on education was spelled out on the website but on further inspection it isn't (I will try to get that added), it was in our launch and road show presentations though. It is not a detailed policy, simply a shared belief that closing rural schools should always be the last resort and if pursued as the SIC has done in the past will accelerate depopulation of our vulnerable areas. You don't have to agree with that to be part of the group but my personal view is that someone who is allegedly actively involved in trying to close rural schools would soon find themselves with a conflict of interest. I may be a bit biased on this subject due to my intense desire to protect my local school from closure but I would never discriminate against another group member for having a different view. If you read the final paragraph of the statement I posted above from our Vice Chairman you will see that we are planning to fully engage with our membership in order to draw up more detailed policies. The seemingly "anti-SNP" stance is purely and simply down to their poor record towards Shetland since they came into power. Some members would probably be anti-SNP anyway but there are also plenty who have voted SNP in the past but have lost faith in their ability/desire to deliver for Shetland. Da Burra Shop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I don't understand just why all the detractors are trying to "brand" WS as a political party.. My understanding (of WS) is that it is a loose, and varied, collection of people with a shared set of beliefs that Shetland would be better served with a lot more autonomy/control over matters that directly affect it. Individual political positions within the group are bound to cause friction between members on occasion but, as long as the "core beliefs" remain unaltered, what's the problem? Does having "policies" make them a "political party" in the accepted sense? Suffererof1crankymofo and Da Burra Shop 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelsup Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 As someone who leans somewhat towards the ideas expressed by Wir Shetland , but someone who doesn't join political parties - I must say that my impression of WS is that it is a political party, albeit not fielding a candidate for election? Perhaps this needs clarification for those confused like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whalsa Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) As someone who leans somewhat towards the ideas expressed by Wir Shetland , but someone who doesn't join political parties - I must say that my impression of WS is that it is a political party, albeit not fielding a candidate for election? Perhaps this needs clarification for those confused like me.We are not a political party. We are a campaign group. We may later become a political party but only if that is what our members vote to do. Colin's understanding of WS "that it is a loose, and varied, collection of people with a shared set of beliefs that Shetland would be better served with a lot more autonomy/control over matters that directly affect it." is pretty much bang on. Edited April 17, 2016 by whalsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffererof1crankymofo Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 As someone who leans somewhat towards the ideas expressed by Wir Shetland , but someone who doesn't join political parties - I must say that my impression of WS is that it is a political party, albeit not fielding a candidate for election? Perhaps this needs clarification for those confused like me. Doesn't Friends of the Earth campaign for the introduction of laws on environmental grounds? I don't recall them putting up candidates. They do, however, send out questionnaires to candidates. Do all Friends of the Earth members vote for the Green Party? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capeesh Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Are there any real multi party groups out there campaigning for more powers for Shetland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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