Direct Flight

[ll]

With Out Skerries now loosing it's scheduled fights of the SIC's 'Air Force 1' & 'Air Force 2', is it viable to run 2 planes from their own private airport for under 100 people now with all the necessary pilots, fire tenders and crews, engineers etc.

 

In Orkney, they use the existing airport and the population on the 6 islands served by the planes stood at 1,640 at time of last census.

 

If Lerwick had a proportionate amount of planes for it's population, it would need 150 planes which would work out about half a billion US dollars!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wheelsup]

I didn't think locals used the inter island flights, just sic officials?

[brian.smith]

Us folk on Fair Isle rely on it

[Ghostrider]

Is there an argument to keep Tingwall open any longer? It would be "interesting" to see the numbers for what it costs the SIC to keep it open set alongside what it would cost to base and operate from Sumburgh. What made sense in 79/80 doesn't necessarily make any now.

 

The argument that Tingwall was necessary for ambulance flights has been used in the past as justification to keep it on, so it would also be equally "interesting" to see numbers for how many ambulance flights actually use Tingwall against how many actually already use Sumburgh.

 

If Tingwall is actually servicing even an equal number of ambulnce flights to what Sumburgh already does, there are quite frankly a horrendous number of ambulance flights being made.

[Frances144]

When I went in the Air Ambulance, I went from Sumburgh.  On the way home, I landed at Tingwall.

[JustMe]

Arguments for keeping Tingwall open certainly exist.  Closer to town for the air ambulance plane than Sumburgh and the nearest diversion site for helicopters if Clickimin is not available.  Closer to Foula and Papa Stour (and Skerries if flights resume).  Also used by general aviation pilots.  And there are going to be times when an air ambulance plane could land there but not at Sumburgh.

 

As for numbers of Air Ambulance flights using Tingwall if there is just a single flight landing there when Sumburgh was not available then that surely is justification for keeping it open.

 

But yes I think costs should be looked at from time to time to see if they can be reduced.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Arguments for keeping Tingwall open certainly exist.  Closer to town for the air ambulance plane than Sumburgh and the nearest diversion site for helicopters if Clickimin is not available.  Closer to Foula and Papa Stour (and Skerries if flights resume).  Also used by general aviation pilots.  And there are going to be times when an air ambulance plane could land there but not at Sumburgh.

 

As for numbers of Air Ambulance flights using Tingwall if there is just a single flight landing there when Sumburgh was not available then that surely is justification for keeping it open.

 

But yes I think costs should be looked at from time to time to see if they can be reduced.

 

Any helicopter pilot who can't land on a sports field shouldn't be flying.

[Wheelsup]

it must be difficult for the SIC to continue to keep Tingwall up to increasing standards for passenger flights without considerable expenditure in the near future. Also a single pilot aircraft burning gasoline must also be potentially a future problem. I guess it will eventually come down to a money problem too big for a local council.

[Ghostrider]

In these times of the SIC getting with the program and kow towing to the man's vision of continued and increased austerity, having money tied up in two airports is a luxury they can't afford. Scatsta is more beneficial (yet) to the Shetland economy than Tingwall, and could serve as a perfectly good diversionary airport to Sumburgh for air ambulance flights.

 

Tingwall may be nearer the hospital in terms of road miles, but in travelling time I suspect its a whole lot closer. Faffing around the Windy Grind and the Brig o' Fitch doesn't help speed, nor does wending through town traffic all the way across from Gremista to Breiwick. The alternative of going via the Black Gaet to minimise town traffic earns miles as its a double dog-leg whichever way you come at it.

 

The air ambulnce didn't go to Tingwall due to road distance concerns, it went there on account of Loganair having the contract at the time, and they made a commercial decision to relocte their operation lock, stock and barrel, ccording to them, for cost reasons. I could well have understood if road distance concerns had been cited back then, as road improvements had barely reached Cunningsburgh, and the 15 miles south of there had a number of "difficult" sections and was in poor condition in numerous places which kept speed right down.,That hasn't been the case much since at least the 90's, and if the SIC would get the finger out and finally upgrade the last two sections of the road between Levenwick and Robins Brae, it wouldn't apply at all.

 

Okay, so flights for Skerries would be longer when/if they resume, flights to Foula and Papa Stour would be marginally longer, but those to the Fair Isle would be much shorter. You're never going to make it "fair" for everybody  when you have isles dotted right round a mainland and only one point on that mainland servicing them all. I don't see the lengthening somewhat of one flight time a good reason to site for continuing to operate from one specific airport, and it obviously didn't count for much when Loganair went to Tingwall, or they'd never have been allowed to for Fair Isle folk complaining about the lengthening of their's.

 

If the length of the Skerries flight is an issue, move the opertion to Scatsta instead, I hve no axe to grind either way. There's a good road south, so road time for ambulance journeys shouldn't be all that much different to Sumburgh. The only reason I suggested Sumburgh is that with the extra facilities I believe it would be reasonable to suppose there would be the minimal number of diversions needed compared to Scatsta. The days Sumburgh operates normally when Scatsta is closed, far exceeds the days Sumburgh is closed and Scatsta operates normally, by my reckoning, mainly due to cross-winds at Scatsta, which never happens at Sumburgh with multiple runways.

 

It would lso be very interesting to know how many times in say, the last 12 months, an air ambulance flight has used Tingwall when Sumburgh was unavailable as their stated diversionary airport, as they've made quite a few to Sumburgh (which I've happened to notice, and god knows how many more I haven't) during the hours when Tingwall would normally have been open during that period, which assumedly means Tingwall wasn't available for whatever reason to handle those. Then there's all the "out of hours" air ambulance usage, which can be numerous flights per week, which has to use Sumburgh already regardless. Basically what I'm saying is, Tingwall is a "business hours" airport, so if you need an air ambulance during those hours you're in luck, but if you need one during the other 128 hours of the week you're going to have to put up with a road trip to Sumburgh and like it, which mkes the thing sound very much like a two tier service dictated by a chronological lottery. If everyone regardless of when had the same opportunity of using Tingwall for the air ambulance the argument might have some weight, but keeping the place going just to benefit those needing the air ambulance during a select 40 hours from the 168 hours we have every week, takes  bit of stomaching in the current public services situation, when the isles has two other, and better, airports.

 

Besides, the Motorsport Club need a track.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Ghostrider

[Seaflech]

 

 

Any helicopter pilot who can't land on a sports field shouldn't be flying.

 

 

 

Seriously, is there anything you're not a world-wide expert on?

[JustMe]

There are times when the visibility at Clickimin and indeed on the approach to Clickimin is so bad that landing there is just not an option.  Granted not that often but sometime Tingwall makes more sense.